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Daehler 
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Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Location: Lexington MO
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 Topic: 12GB that doesn't move
Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 8:06am |
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Im going to look at a 12GB that doesn't move, anyone with ideas? Price is right and it does run so going to try and get it bought. Im thinking its something simple since its not just sitting in the middle of a field or trees.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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doctorcorey
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Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
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Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 8:22am |
At least make sure it's full of trans fluid. How long has it been sitting?
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Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 10:45am |
just guessing here but i would venture to say they suffer from the same issues as 7g, suction screens, filters and hyd pump issues. hopefully not seals in trans as likely unobtanium like 7g powershift
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 11:19am |
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Cal is most likely correct but if that tractor was operational and then set, the transmission is probably about four gallons low on oil. They leak from the transmission into the torque converter housing and the oil winds up on the ground once the housing is overfull. These use a venturi pump to maintain oil level in the converter housing and return the oil to the transmission. Raise the seat and the filler pipe on the left side, (right side of tractor) is the transmission filler. Bring the oil level up to where it shows on the stick, start the engine and don't be surprised if it pukes oil out from the starter nose area. Allow the tractor to run a while to have the venturi pump decrease to correct level the oil in the converter housing and then top up the transmission level.
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Daehler
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Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Location: Lexington MO
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Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 12:07pm |
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I was going to take a bunch of oil. Im suspecting its low.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 8:55am |
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12G was a smooth and powerful tractor. If not worn out in all the arm and bucket linkage they are still very useful; albeit slow by today's expectations.
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Doughd16b
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Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 12:37pm |
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They had the hd11 powertrain and hd16 undercarriage
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Codger
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Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 7:15am |
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The engine was also almost 1/3 higher in power output than the 11B tractors were IIRC.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 8:31am |
Was still a Rockford Clutch Trans, similar to Clark, Euclid, International series tractors, they had their issues. Seals being the worst.
Looked up p/n's on the 12s, some were same as the 7G had and had issues with, Shafts sitting aside each other as opposed to top to bottom in case may have made longevity some better.
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Codger
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Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 8:51am |
I rebuilt one years ago but did not supply the parts, nor remove the unit from the crawler. No really special tools needed other than a jig to hold it upright.
I'm trying to remember the name brand on the fluid additive/seal conditioner they wanted used, but am drawing a blank. IIRC the trans really needed to be kept "topped up" and fluid coolers maintained for longevity. That kinda sounds "run of the mill" but it was critical in these style transmissions.
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Daehler
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Location: Lexington MO
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Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 6:56pm |
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Well i got to see the old girl today. She needs alot of tlc. Does run but as soon as i got it started it blew a line. Its been painted over and has fiat on it but the paints peeling and can see all the old decals. I can probably buy for just above scrap so would have about 4k in it by time i get it hauled home. Only real disturbing thing is someone cut the end of the oil coolers out. Im dumb founded how and why. Oil wasn't even on the dipstick on hydraulics. Engine oil was just black not milky so thats good. Needs injector pump rebuilt cause its leaking some but it started pretty good for being 50 out and not running for a few years.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Daehler
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Location: Lexington MO
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Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 7:02pm |
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 7:23pm |
From the photo is looks as if the engine coolant was water and froze in the winter months breaking the cast iron cooler housing. This could compromise that oil cooler's integrity as those little tubes that engine oil flows through could be crushed or the solder joints holding them to the end plates could be broken. If the solder joints are broken you would have engine oil in the coolant as soon as the engine is started with the cooler end housing replaced.
This initial entry fee, (purchase price) seems right but the long term $$$ to make it serviceable, and operable can only be decided by the prospective purchaser.
How is the undercarriage and transmission once you have physically seen it?
Edited by Codger - 27 Nov 2022 at 7:54pm
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Daehler
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Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 8:54pm |
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Track pins have some wear and id say rest of undercarriage is around 50%. Dont know on tranny since i didn't have right oil with me and that hose blowed anyway. I figured it used atf buy it had regular hydraulic oil. That cast piece just had to clean of cuts and the pieces were gone and not laying in undercarriage. I think i have a spare end casting off a R7 engine but dont have coolers if needed.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 11:18pm |
Mine has "universal" tractor transmission fluid run in it from TSC. When it's changed I'll go to a either a Mobil, or Chevron product meeting the specs, but the TSC oil does also.
Thinking into this; that cooler is for the transmission and not the engine so engine oil would not be into the equation. I do know where there is an 11B parts tractor, but I cannot remember if it was a power, or standard shift tractor as the trans and part of the u/c are gone. The engine is blown in this one.
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Codger
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 5:57am |
Are you going to go any further with this tractor? I'll be around the other donor this next week returning a semi tractor I'm working on and will look it over for parts if not a dead issue.
I looked at the front of mine yesterday and it looks set up as the earlier attachment shows.
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Daehler
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 3:01pm |
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I think im going to go after this thing. Ive got to get some money moved around and other things lined up. Bad part is winter us coming and working on big stuff in freezing them isnt fun.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Daehler
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 3:06pm |
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I also looked at out 64 or 65 HD11 EP and its got the same set up as the 12gb so parts should be gettable. I dont see why engine oil is coming out if its for transmission cooler.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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DMiller
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 3:09pm |
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Two Cooler groups, One housing, One Engine Oil the other Trans oil. Check at Minnpar before throwing money away, Some pieces are Unobtanium even if listed in their guides, have to do a Quantity Search where NO there are next to no other sources for AC Parts and Rockford no longer services the parts in these.
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Daehler
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 3:17pm |
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Zimmerman tractor in versailles mo has used parts. Mainly would need the gaskets for it.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 5:46pm |
Dave hit that one square with the two cooler groups, (engine and trans) sharing the serpentine coolant supply path. The rigid fluid lines with the Code 61 flanges are for the transmission where the engine oil has passages in the block for supply and return.
Once you have a good end bell casting it should be easy to cut a gasket. Use the original to gauge thickness of the sheet material to use and invest in a small gasket cutting set. Trying to remember the name of mine but it's been just over 40 years since I purchased it but they are still in business out of Cincinnati, OH. You trace the part onto gasket sheet, set the knives/blades for margin, (width), tape your material down solid, and follow the line you drew on the gasket sheet. Does a nice job with just a bit of practice. Another alternative is "Olson's", https://www.olsonsgaskets.com/ out of Washington state. They have patterns for just about everything ever made, or can get them. |
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Daehler
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Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 9:37pm |
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Minnpar still has gaskets, $18. Says 39 in stock on internet but need to call to make sure.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 6:01am |
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Sounds like you're on your way. If you decide to tighten that loader up give me a pm as I do line boring on site. Done a lot of them in the past.
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Daehler
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Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 5:11pm |
 Codger wrote:
Sounds like you're on your way. If you decide to tighten that loader up give me a pm as I do line boring on site. Done a lot of them in the past. |
How bout on a 16B dozer? Dads got a lot of play from lack of grease.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Codger
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Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 6:04pm |
Shouldn't be much of a problem to do. Where is the play mostly? Push beams to trunion mounts, or in the blade attachments to the arms and push beams?
Would probably need to obtain pins and/or bushings from someplace and machine the parts to fit them as obtaining original AC parts would be difficult. No problem with generic pins and bushings but would need measurements to order. Bores can also be welded and opened up to fit a pin if preferred. I have a Climax hydraulic boring setup and bore welder so repairs are feasible.
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