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D17JIM 
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 Topic: Agco does it again !!
Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 1:39pm |
I just got off the phone with my Brother and he has been to a meeting at Pigg Implement in Sullivan, Ind. Where 50 farmers met to get information to protest Agco dropping Pigg's as an Agco dealer. Pigg has been an Allis then Agco dealer for over 50 years. They were more into New Holland and Buehler for new sales but were still servicing the Gleaner, Allis, Agco and Sunflower etc in the area. My Brother has 2 M3's, 8010,8030,8050,200 and 3 series 4 D17's. He farms about 1000 acres and all of these are used on the farm. Many others around here also use Piggs. Pigg did not know they were being dropped until they ordered parts last week and were told they no longer had an account. No letter no calls !!
McCalister out of Terre Haute, who deal for Agco in Terragater and Cat products had an open house in Sullivan with a new Combine (to rub it in Pigg's face) or so it would seem . Not sure if the combine was Gleaner or Massy or Cat. There were only about 10 at McCalisters according to my brother who drove by to see. 52 years as a dealer for this company means nothing and McCalister won't care squat about the Allis parts. I deal with them some on equipment for the farm supply where i work and I know how they are. Sorry for the long post. Jim
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Steve M C/IL
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 1:50pm |
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Hate to have to say this but the reality of today's' political world,you may find the underlying answer in their political affiliations.Don't think it's not a possibility!When things don't make sense in the real word,start following the money and the politics.
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farmtoybuilder
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 2:51pm |
That's to bad! But if they weren't selling any new Agco tractors or combines I can see Agco canceling them. As they and other brands can't afford to keep a dealer around for only parts sales in this day and age! I bet there is another side to this story, I'm sure they would have been informed as things like this don't just happen over night. Normally the regional manger and DSM comes and gives you a termination letter. A lot of companies are closing dealers that don't meet sale quotas.
Edited by farmtoybuilder - 02 Dec 2010 at 2:53pm
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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.
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D17JIM
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 3:28pm |
I've known Randy Pigg for over 30 years and my brother and Dad delt with him longer than that. If he said he wasn't notified then he wasn't notified ! Agco was not a good seller in this area so Randy had to go to another brand but he serviced Allis and Agco like he always had and his Father before him.
MCalister are not a good dealership in Cat and agco sprayers. I see no reason for them to be so now for farm customers. Jim
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ILGLEANER
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 3:37pm |
D17Jim,
I dont want to make you mad,or anyone else that reads this,and I am not holding up for Agco. But I live about 35 miles from Pigg. I know a guy that lives probably 20 miles from them. We both drive A86s,Pigg doesnt even know what one looks like. They havent even stocked orange tractors,or Silver combines there,for the last 5 years. Thats what happens when as a dealer you are living off of past sales. If they would have sold Gleaners,and Agcos ,instead of Blue and Yellow ,I am sure this wouldnt have happened. I have talked to the owner (Randy I think) he is a good old AC man, but he give up on them in all of the changes and I dont bleame him either. You wouldnt even know they were an Agco dealer when you drove by if it were not for the Agco sign out front. People that sell whole goods dont get there contracts pulled. And as Steve said it all politics,I am sure they give Mc Callister a sweet deal, to take it on,because they have there head up Cats poor word choice,even though they dont sell anything.
IG
Edited by ILGLEANER - 02 Dec 2010 at 3:39pm
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Daehler
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 3:53pm |
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Its a shame to hear that the company is doing that to any dealership, expecially one that has been selling equipment that long. This may not help much but i've just sent a letter to RICH enhagen trying to save what left of the orange dealerships and tractors and gleaner line. To me the only thing that can be done is just flood his foreign butt with letters saying whats happening. If i ever get a response ill be sure to post it.
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Oldoug
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:03pm |
IG...poor word choice??? lol.
I'm surprised AGCO let them in business that long if they were selling no new AGCO equipment. It's not just AGCO that closed alot of dealers, A-C and Deutz-Allis did the same things, alot of A-C dealers went under even an early as the late seventies. I talked to the owner of a old dealership just a few months ago that is now in the salvage business and I asked him why he got out and he told me he was forced out in 1987 by Deutz-Allis becuase he didn't sell enough new equipment. He said he always paid his bills and all that and they still pulled his contracts.
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Matt Folkers
FOLKERS RESTORATION
Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past.
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Lonn
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:43pm |
 Oldoug wrote:
IG...poor word choice??? lol.
I'm surprised AGCO let them in business that long if they were selling no new AGCO equipment. It's not just AGCO that closed alot of dealers, A-C and Deutz-Allis did the same things, alot of A-C dealers went under even an early as the late seventies. I talked to the owner of a old dealership just a few months ago that is now in the salvage business and I asked him why he got out and he told me he was forced out in 1987 by Deutz-Allis becuase he didn't sell enough new equipment. He said he always paid his bills and all that and they still pulled his contracts. |
My experience at the CaseIH dealer is that it's a dog eat dog world. Probably what had happened is that a larger dealer coveted any little business that he was doing. The larger dealers lobby all the time to the company to shut down their smaller competition. Doesn't matter if they paid their bills. I witnessed it first hand. The victim was a dealer about 15 or so miles from us. First they pulled his equipment sales contract and then some years later my dealership lobbied again to get this small dealer's parts contract pulled and that's what happened. Every time the reps came by my boss would talk to them about how this small dealership was giving discounts to independent shops. That's against Case policy. These were the same shops we were also giving discounts to. We did that a lot and I suspect they all do. Dog eat dog. If you think things are about free competition think again. It's always about seeking a monopoly. My boss would talk about locking up an area so if a farmer was to complain unless he switched colors he was still going to buy from us. Not that he treated the customers bad but that's what he said once in a while when there was a disgruntled customer, "Where else is he going to go".
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D17JIM
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 7:15am |
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I guess one of the biggest problems I have is with the company taking over the parts and shortline sales. My company is moving away from Agco equipment for Custom work as Ag Agronomy retailers. We cover an area from Vincennes to Lake county in Indiana. Lots of new equipment each year and we don't like doing business with Agco anymore. Pigg's did not sell the large equipment anymore but they took care of the old Allis customers who were switching to the blue and yellow line. Doesn't help Agco but who wants to ? My Brother will be going to near Odon, Indiana for parts but they will probably have the same situation soon as they don't move new Agco products. I like Randy Pigg and his new owners but he adjusted to stay in business and I'm sure they will again hard on those with the old equipment. I'm sure if my brother buys a new tractor it will blue or at least not Agco from McCalister.
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 7:43am |
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I don't get AGCO. In the dealer sense there are three pretty active now massey dealers all within a few miles of each other. This is 60 miles from me where my AGCO dealer is. My AGCO dealer has been trying to run the old massey dealer out of business for awhile and the old massey guy went to sell New Hollands too. The other AGCO/now massey dealer is smaller but sold a ton of ST units that AGCO no longer sells. My dealer was hoping that dealer wouldn't get a massey contract but they did. So now instead of two AGCO and one massey dealer relatively close you got three so so massey dealers. To top it off AGCO spent a millions dollars for a big challenger dealer to bring a dealer smack dab in the middle of these guys. There is already several very large Case, New Holland and Deere dealers around that area.
One of the things I disagreed with but made some sense is that the dropping of AGCO would allow them to get rid of under performing dealers. But it seems they not only kept them all they introduced a new big one. I can see the challenger guy being gone when the AGCO money runs out, I can see the old MF dealer now New Holland dealer going all New Holland. I can see my AGCO dealer picking up the New Holland tractor line because they already sell a lot of New Holland hay tools and combines. I can see AGCO dieing a slow death.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:00am |
What I simply don't understand is , If the old dealers aren't selling new equipment but are still working hard at keeping the customers equipment repaired /overhauled , isn't that sales in parts? Maybe not as big of a single purchase of new equipment, but there are many fellows that can not afford the new and have to struggle along with the old machinery...which they can maybe afford to keep fixed up.
This has become a disgusting world where they shove a stake into the heart of decent people and don't care as long as it makes them money hand over fist.
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Kipn
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:35am |
Pretty normal in business these days. We all saw it in the auto industry with Chevy and Chrysler shuttering dealers. Being in retail, I've had many companies require me to spend certian dollar amounts each season or I won't be a dealer anymore of theres. In better times I could absorb the extra inventory. All retailers have to make adjustments to their own businesses to what works the best.
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firebrick43
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 10:31am |
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I understand your frustration, and I really don't know about the MacCallister dealer in Terre Haute but ours in Lafayette is pretty good. They will order you parts for anything you want that they carry and filters/batteries/consumable for just about anything made. They also have good parts service for outlying areas with parts drop off points every night so you don't have to drive all the way to town (30 Miles).
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bill2260
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 11:32am |
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I don't mean to be cold, but since allis chalmers changed the name to agco I don't care. Buy parts from sandy lake or a junkyard and life does go on. Like my ac tractors but we are keeping a legacy alive for us. Not sure anyone else cares. Bill
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nowversatile
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 3:28pm |
D17JIM wrote:
I just got off the phone with my Brother and he has been to a meeting at Pigg Implement in Sullivan, Ind. Where 50 farmers met to get information to protest Agco dropping Pigg's as an Agco dealer. Pigg has been an Allis then Agco dealer for over 50 years. They were more into New Holland and Buehler for new sales but were still servicing the Gleaner, Allis, Agco and Sunflower etc in the area. My Brother has 2 M3's, 8010,8030,8050,200 and 3 series 4 D17's. He farms about 1000 acres and all of these are used on the farm. Many others around here also use Piggs. Pigg did not know they were being dropped until they ordered parts last week and were told they no longer had an account. No letter no calls !!
McCalister out of Terre Haute, who deal for Agco in Terragater and Cat products had an open house in Sullivan with a new Combine (to rub it in Pigg's face) or so it would seem . Not sure if the combine was Gleaner or Massy or Cat. There were only about 10 at McCalisters according to my brother who drove by to see. 52 years as a dealer for this company means nothing and McCalister won't care squat about the Allis parts. I deal with them some on equipment for the farm supply where i work and I know how they are. Sorry for the long post. Jim
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Best revenge: don't buy any new AGCO products with maybe the exception of Gleaner, as the dictator secretly wants rid of that as well. Talked to AGCO dealer today that told me they are struggling to get the interest in MF, they have sold orange for over 50 years, I suggested saving their frustration and sell Versatile, which they picked up after the end of Orange. It appears Versatile will be much more trustworthy.
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oldman
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 6:27pm |
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We ran AC for 40 years. Turned the fuel up and let'em romp xt 145, 220 185,7080 235, 8550 and 4w305 360. When it became AGCO it became junk. 8425, 9675 Gleaners called the dealer everyday because of something. Became red and life is good
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ILGLEANER
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:57pm |
There doesnt have to be any revenge at Piggs. All of those people have bought New Holland,that is why they no longer will be selling AC parts. I traded one orange one for a green one,the other orange one went for a Versiile,there will not be any masseys on this farm. I am not getting revenge,just moving on to something else. JC its sad,and what you say is true, but its Agri business in the 2000's. No one cares what got them to this poiint,all they care about is making the stock holders money.
IG
Edited by ILGLEANER - 03 Dec 2010 at 9:01pm
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Dale-OH
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Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 7:56am |
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Nowversatile From a dealer point Versatile is not the best company to work with, other than my direct regional sales rep I have ZERO help. Versatile service and Parts in Winnipeg have 1 or 2 people answering phones and questoins so it takes a long time to get anything from them. They have no extra discounts to help win a deal. That being said the Versatile Articulated tractors are as near bullet proof as anything we sell and I have great respect for the equipment. We are an AGCO and Versatile Dealer the nice thing about AGCO is there is always someone to get ahold of.
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Chris/CT
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Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 10:08am |
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Some people would call that move "progress", I call it BS. Remember the wealthy folks get richer and the rest get poorer, in more ways than one. As long as you subscribe to the "morals" of life, you will be OK.
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nowversatile
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Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 11:56am |
Dale-OH wrote:
Nowversatile From a dealer point Versatile is not the best company to work with, other than my direct regional sales rep I have ZERO help. Versatile service and Parts in Winnipeg have 1 or 2 people answering phones and questoins so it takes a long time to get anything from them. They have no extra discounts to help win a deal. That being said the Versatile Articulated tractors are as near bullet proof as anything we sell and I have great respect for the equipment. We are an AGCO and Versatile Dealer the nice thing about AGCO is there is always someone to get ahold of. |
I can understand your concerns. I attended one of the PD 2010 events this past summer and we are in the market for a new FWA. I asked some of these questions to the managers on hand, their comment was that they are still suffering from some growing pains getting the row crops where they want them. They assured me they will get there as they told me resources are being invested. With a new FWA coming within the year, I most certainly hope so. I understand there is a Versatile dealer meeting next month in Las Vegas to intro the new 4WD, a great opportunity for you and your counterpart dealers to rattle their cage on this one. AGCO is extremely vulnerable and could be rendered to non-relevent status on the tractor front. Versatile needs to understand that loud and clear! Regarding AGCO, two significant Sunflower dealers in the area that have a large market share along with top notch parts and service just dropped them because of quote: "almost impossible to work with AGCO anymore". They will be now focused on Landoll and Great Plains. I have heard that a major "brain drain" impacted Sunflower where Landoll and Great Plains were the beneficiaries. Seeing a lot of blue and yellow discs now.
Regardless of what AGCO does, there will NEVER be a MF or Challenger tractor on my farm. When this little dictator shirked his responsibilities to taking care of these traditions and AGCO's US ag market share (which is falling), I am not playing!
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AndrewGubbels
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 8:54am |
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I can see both sides of the story but. If it is just a parts store and they are not selling much then it costs more the keep them then what they make. As for MF and Challenger. We have taken over the Challenger line of equipment. I am not big on the yellow. Although we are sure getting alot of customers interested we would have never had walk into the place If we only could offer them orange. That is one plus I have noticed. And Thank god we get to keep the Gleaner!!!
IG not to change the subject at all but did you get a chance to try that cascade pan kit in the Combine? We had tremendous results. If not I would almost make the trip to you to show you the kit or help ya put it in. If you come up this way and would like to see it just let me know we have a few combines close that have it that I could show it to you!
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Andrew Gubbels
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Spud
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 12:11pm |
Lonn:
You are reinforcing my viewpoint in a round about way.
With most people on this board wishing with all their hearts for Agco to go out of business, what do they think will happen if they did?
Deere and CNH will have 90% of the market to divide between them as they see fit and people will pay whatever the two of them decide they will pay.
There would be no more competition. The midwest corn grower is not going to tell Deere/CNH to f off and get a 100 hp kubota to work his 5000 acres.
There are one or two alternative such as Versatile and McCormick but I don't see them getting big market share.
Best to keep Agco going and keep the market competitive.
As far as those dreaming of some magic fairy buying the AC name and building a tractor plant in the US, they should put down the joint and get in the real world, sorry to say.
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Daehler
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 12:36pm |
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Spud your right on the keeping the market going by keeping the Agco company, but they really do need to build a tractor plant in the USA. Its bull crap that we have to buy everything foreign made expecially AMERICAN named tractors. To me it doesn't matter if it says ALLIS CHALMERS or AGCO ( since it means allis ) on it just so its corprate orange.
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nowversatile
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 12:59pm |
Spud wrote:
Lonn:
With most people on this board wishing with all their hearts for Agco to go out of business, what do they think will happen if they did?
Deere and CNH will have 90% of the market to divide between them as they see fit and people will pay whatever the two of them decide they will pay.
There would be no more competition. The midwest corn grower is not going to tell Deere/CNH to f off and get a 100 hp kubota to work his 5000 acres.
There are one or two alternative such as Versatile and McCormick but I don't see them getting big market share.
Best to keep Agco going and keep the market competitive.
As far as those dreaming of some magic fairy buying the AC name and building a tractor plant in the US, they should put down the joint and get in the real world, sorry to say. |
Just who is driving the market to 90% CNH and Deere? It isn't the midwest farmer who made these decisions, look no further than the bonehead in Duluth! Most of us on this board must represent something much bigger in the market place based on AGCO's "2010 big collapse" in tractor sales. We would prefer a third option to avoid the monopolies, but the dictator basically told his customer base to go fly a kite. You say you don't see Versatile or McCormick getting big market share, apparently many current AGCO dealers must think otherwise as most of them have now picked up Versatile. I read an interview last spring in one of the farm equipment magazines where the CEO of McCormick was puzzled that their tractor sales had doubled. Wishful thinking in the current MF/Challenger marketing team.
I would suggest you send your next supply of bongs to duluth, as the midwest farmers can think quite clearly without any assistance!
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Daehler
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 1:11pm |
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Its also stupid stuff like AGCO being able to make a planter and disk for the midwest but not a tractor! What the heck is wrong with that picture
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redline
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 2:29pm |
I am also sickened by the current situation, but I don't think there is any hope of saving the patient now. Who would want to get back on board with AGCO at this point while Richenhagen is still there? I want nothing to do with the massey brand, and dealing with a Cat dealer isn't anything wonderful. The bean counters all seem to reach the same conclusion that fewer dealers and brands will return a larger profit, but they are making some assumptions that don't play out well in the real world. There is such a thing as brand loyalty, but we won't drive half way across the state when there is another dealer that is convenient. The bean counters fail to see the importance of making it EASY for customers to buy your product. That most likely means more dealers with more selection. If finding a dealer and creating a relationship is required when I already have that arrangement made with another dealer, I won't go out of my way very far to make it happen. It is the dealer that makes the product successful, when you have a good dealer with a product that meets your criteria and is easy to purchase, it is a safe bet the customer will stay with the dealer-even when it is a different brand. (in my case a brand other than Massey) We won't buy another Chrysler for the same reason. The Chrysler corp. closed all the dealers in my county, and it is no longer convenient to buy and maintain their product. It is, however, convenient to do business with Ford, GM or one of the foreign brands. I think it is a safe bet there are many more people that have reached the same conclusion.
Edited by redline - 05 Dec 2010 at 7:33pm
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AndrewGubbels
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 7:45pm |
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agco still makes the Challenger, Massey, Fendt and other options for the Midwest. And you can even order quite a few parts from them still for a lot of brands. Considering the are in charge of trying to make alot of parts for MM, Massey Harris, MF, Oliver, Allis Chalmers, white and many other brands They arent doing to bad. Give the company some credit. Better then dropping everything Allis Chalmers and Gleaner back in 1985.
Andrew
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Andrew Gubbels
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nowversatile
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 8:58pm |
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Massey and Fendt are not options. When it comes to Challenger, the only option is tracks, that is what they are known for and is 95% of Challengers business. Many people in the company deserve credit for what they do. Management deserves NO credit. How can you credit people that are driving market share and customer sat. to the ground? A modern AC and Gleaner could be commanding respectable market share once again with proper management.
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PeteMN
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 9:33pm |
I seriously doubt anyone at AGCO will do anything other than chuckle at you guys. I mean if they can't show increased revenues from new equipment sales this year then they will have some serious explaining to do with their major stockholders. Trivia about this dealer's problems or some disgruntled employee won't be on the agenda of discussion. The pointed question will be about their sales growth/revenue growth compared to others in the industry.
I just wonder how long are they going to produce parts for all those lines of equipment when it has so little significance to them?
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AndrewGubbels
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Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 10:34pm |
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I guess I am trying to stay positive with it. It is my livelihood working as a mechanic at an agco dealer. I for one and happy about getting the challenger line as an option for those that will not run a tractor with the MF name on it. THey are the same tractors with different paint and a few other minor details. The thing that bugs me the most is the people that complain the most seem to have not purchased anything since an 8000 series or previous model anyway. I just hope that if your local agco dealer has been good to you and jumped for you and has had a good product do not just drop them. I can see if they were not helpful with anything that is a different story! I feel I am as much of an allis chalmers collector/fan/nut as anyone on the site and I for one just wish people would let the color change thing at rest.
Andrew Gubbels
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Andrew Gubbels
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