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Ryan T 
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Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Location: Ariche mo
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 Topic: Quick question
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 10:10pm |
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Have I missed something be honest with me
I am a late thirties farmer starting out doing hay and extra. We use mostly allis on our land. Really want to get a 8000 series tractor that’s awesome but am I really looking at $30 to 40 grand to own one
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
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Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 11:46pm |
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Sleepy Joe's policies have created BIG inflation. I would wait till things every get closer to "normal".
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Wispitfiremike
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 12:38am |
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You can believe what you want but Don the con played a hand in this too.
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jvin248
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Location: Detroit
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 4:39am |
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It's not either President. It's the Federal Reserve, which is neither Federal nor a Reserve -- it's a privately held banking empire. As one of its founders Rothchild said at the beginning "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws".
The currency we have right now is in the last stages of value destruction which often results in hyperinflation. They cannot raise interest rates or the markets and employment nose dive into recession -- then there is no one with wages to tax to pay the debt created by printing. The only way forward is to keep printing, which gives us more and more inflation. They reported 7% inflation last year, but they changed how CPI is calculated, if using the 1980 formula we are at 15%. A 15% inflation rate means prices double in five years.
History is filled with countries that printed their way to hyperinflation (where prices double in one to a few months). What they revealed: Avoid taking on debt and dump what debt you have now. I hear of a lot of people turning in car/truck leases/loans and getting significant cash back right now, a situation that won't last long. Use that cash to buy farm equipment, all cash no new debt.
I have been away from farming for decades, and only have a small place now. This last year I worked at assembling a new farming kit around a Ferguson TO35 and an Allis Chalmers WD like we had back then. All the repair parts, implements, and tractors I figured I got for a "15% off" in the middle of the year and maybe even "30% off" by the end because all other prices are climbing. Then spent wrench time on it all.
Last fall I put in winter wheat with the refurbished machinery. Putting in corn this spring. I'm sticking to open-pollinated seed and doing both 'regenerative agriculture' (new methods) and 'conventional tillage' (because that's what I grew up with and know, as a hedge). Check out the Gabe Brown regenerative agriculture methods on youtube. The key is avoiding all fertilizer and chemical inputs -- don't worry about yield, worry about profitability. With fertilizer running 3x+ in price it won't take much yield to be ahead in that game.
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ILGLEANER
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Willow Hill,ILL
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 5:34am |
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30% of all the money ever printed in the country, has been printed in the last 2 years. Think about that, almost 250 years, and close to a 1/3 just in the last 24 months. I think we are headed to the Carter years.
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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corbinstein
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 6:22am |
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Carter Hell, I'm thinking we heading back to '29 and the Hoover/Roosevelt era.
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PaulB
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 6:36am |
This has morphed into something that should be in the political section. Everyone has and is entitled to them, however if this continues it will only degrade into a pissing contest that will not help anything.
To the young fellow that wants an 8000 series tractor. How many acres are you farming? What HP does your equipment require? Hills or flatland? Do you really NEED a big tractor, a CA is about all that's NEEDED for a hayrake and is more economical to run than many of the larger tractors. The farmers around here that complain they're going broke have to have a 150+HP tractor with a cab to do a job that a 25 HP tractor can do just fine. Figure out what will work not what you want and get going with what you can afford.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 6:44am |
Ryan, If you want it and need it, go buy it! I am sure if you priced some new green equipment that the good Allis 8000 series will look pretty good. I applaud you for starting out farming. Do you need a tractor that size to do your farming work? Will it be your tillage machine? I am old and way past farming days. We did hay for a small dairy and all the other small farming stuff with right sized equipment. The cost of everything is up. Good luck! We need some pictures of you Allis tractors too. Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:05am |
Have to ask... it sounds like you already have tractors on the farm so WHY do you NEED the 8000 ? run the numbers, do the math... will using the 8000 be 'cost effective' over existing tractors ? What's the cost to run ? Dollars per hour ?? A bigger tractor usually means higher fuel costs, lots of oil to changes, pricey parts ? As others have said, try to size the tractor to the job.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Sherman Farms
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:27am |
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If a 7040 will fill your needs Wellerts in West Salem Ohio has a nice lower hour one for $8,000.
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B, C, RC, 3 wc,2 wd,3 wd45, d15, d17, d19, d21, 190, 440, 7040, 918 backhoe, 12 roto balers, 7 60 combines, 40, 66,2 72,90 super, sp100, Gleaner E, F3, 3 L2, R62, and much more
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WF owner
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:37am |
I remember when our 180 was new (late 60's) and I went to get it to rake with. Dad stopped me and said you are going to use that "big" tractor to rake with. I ended up on the WF. I think of this often when I see big tractors doing work (especially hay work) that a 50 - 75 hp. tractor would handle easily.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:55am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
Have to ask... it sounds like you already have tractors on the farm so WHY do you NEED the 8000 ? run the numbers, do the math... will using the 8000 be 'cost effective' over existing tractors ? What's the cost to run ? Dollars per hour ?? A bigger tractor usually means higher fuel costs, lots of oil to changes, pricey parts ? As others have said, try to size the tractor to the job.
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This one always kills me! ACTUALLY, if you need the bigger tractor, and use it appropriately, fuel cost per acre is cheaper.
Ya, like said, if you hook up a 9 foot hay rake to a 150hp tractor, you are wasting money and are not being fuel efficient, like I said, "Used appropriately".
Edited by Tbone95 - 03 Feb 2022 at 8:12am
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DougG
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 8:31am |
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You can find decent 8000 series under 20,000 yet , maybe not perfect but - hey- I never worried about if its too big for the job , i got the tractors i have because i wanted them - and I too am looking for an 7050, and 8030 , dont need them that big but I want one ! Works good on the year of year sheet too
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 8:36am |
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The key is profitably, size your equipment to the size of operation, and work your way up if that is your desire.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Gregor
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Location: Prague, Ne
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 4:27pm |
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Yes, this is crazy. 8000 series seemed to hold there value between 10-20K the last 10 years, but have gone up I guess. My folks were eating out at the next town over and a guy that sells some equipment sat and ate with them. He has a FWA 8070 for sale with 9XXX hrs on it. He put a cab kit in it and asking 45K. I have a nice one with 5300 hrs on it. Wonder what that is worth. I'd be temped to trade up at that price for sure. I also have a 8030 2wd in the shed that runs the baler on about 80-100 round bales a year. Think it just turned 7,000 hrs. Used to be my main tractor, and not sure I'd ever sell that one. I don't do facebook, but believe it is listed in in their selling thing under Wahoo or David City Ne if someone cares to check it out to verify. My thought was ya right, when the old man called me to tell me, but maybe so I guess.
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Ky.Allis
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 4:42pm |
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Honestly if I were going to pay 30-40K I would look at what is available in other brands along with AC. Seems more and more parts for AC's are NLA and AGCO dealers keep getting farther apart. It's not a good feeling when your only parts source is a "boneyard" and if you are lucky enough to find a part there it is more than likely "well used" and comes with an outrageous price.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 5:02pm |
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 5:12pm |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
Sleepy Joe's policies have created BIG inflation. I would wait till things every get closer to "normal". |
You started the "political rhetoric", but I'll wait to see where this goes before making input to you personally  !! To the OP, if the machine looks/runs/functions as advertised, perhaps not "TOO" bad of a price for a pre-EPA mandated engine  ?? The GREEN guys were paying STUPID $$ for pre-emission controlled tractors WAY before "SLEEPY" was in charge 
Edited by FREEDGUY - 03 Feb 2022 at 5:13pm
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bigal121892
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 5:56pm |
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Define Stupid dollars.
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Red Bank
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 7:34pm |
Ryan T wrote:
Have I missed something be honest with me
I am a late thirties farmer starting out doing hay and extra. We use mostly allis on our land. Really want to get a 8000 series tractor that’s awesome but am I really looking at $30 to 40 grand to own one |
Yes that is what it will take to get one. Two years ago you could have one $15k-25k. The value has increased on tractors the past three years at least and this past year they have soared. Good news for us that have tractors bad news for us wanting to buy another one. I want an 8000 series because of the cab. I really like the cab, has a modern feel to it. I assume you feel the same. It’s not necessarily about matching the job to the tractor it’s about having a nice comfortable cab tractor to work with. $30-$40k for 8000 series, yeah no thanks, I priced a Deutz-Fahr 5110g at the NC Farm Show today 100hp 4wd with three remotes, loader with third function around $70k, has DEF does not have DPF, so no regen. Which is the better return on investment?
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Wispitfiremike
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 10:24pm |
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Stupid dollars it may seem but what is option? Used prices for cars and trucks are doing the same thing as used tractors with rising price tags, may not last but who knows? If new is not in reach then used is the market and with rising new costs we will have rising used costs. Why is simple supply and demand. If you are trading in your equipment, it has more value than last year but you will pay more for the next one. There may be something that older equipment is much more friendly for the average mechanic than all the new electronic stuff helping to push up perceived value. Housing is no different with lumber and other material costs, pole barns I am sure have gone up as well. To me the big question is where is the money going as most people are not making a similarly higher wage at anything . Once prices go up most companies are very slow to lower them also making this more likely to stick around.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 10:49pm |
Ryan-
Before we dive into answers, how about defining the question a bit more...
You're in Missouri... Archie? area... Not the super-hilly area, but certainly not flat... and you're considering a tractor for haymaking?
What KIND of baling, how large are the fields you're expecting, what kind of volume?
The circumstances define the machine. IF you've already looked though all this, and settled on the machine you think meets this best, but the price is higher than you can justify, then that means the circumstances and the machine are not a proper match.
A LONG time ago, when I was very young, I started raking hay on my Grandfather's wide-front D17. Open station, PTO-driven rake, and the field segments were from 10 acres to 50 acres, where the smaller ones were rather un-flat, but the larger ones were riverbottom-flat. At that time, the noise and dust made me feel like the 17 was lesser than his air-conditioned cab diesel Two-Twenty that was seemingly always hitched to the round baler.
When I was done with the rake, I'd unhitch, and hook up the Hesston square-baler, hook up the racks, and he'd take the seat, while my uncle and I would load square bales.
I threw LOTS of bales. Raked lots of windrows...
After doing that, and owning my own D17, I recognize that what I did with the 17, would not have been as effective from the cab of the two-twenty... because the circumstances of all the square bales, was totally different from what they did on the big round bales.
30 years later, my uncle STILL uses that D17 on the rake and square baler. I can't begin to estimate how many hours that engine has run, or how many bales of hay it has packed... but it's still out there doing it... and the Two-Twenty is on it's fourth round-baler.
If you don't think the machine will pay for itself, and be efficient in service within the timeframe you could depreciate it (i.e., if you based it on the MACRS schedule), REGARDLESS if you were to actually do so... then you should revisit your plan for some other alternative.
Many things are priced 'too high'... and sometimes there's good reason, other times, there ain't. In the end, you need to keep food on the table, or be independantly wealthy.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 6:54am |
Red Bank wrote:
Ryan T wrote:
Have I missed something be honest with me
I am a late thirties farmer starting out doing hay and extra. We use mostly allis on our land. Really want to get a 8000 series tractor that’s awesome but am I really looking at $30 to 40 grand to own one |
Yes that is what it will take to get one. Two years ago you could have one $15k-25k. The value has increased on tractors the past three years at least and this past year they have soared. Good news for us that have tractors bad news for us wanting to buy another one. I want an 8000 series because of the cab. I really like the cab, has a modern feel to it. I assume you feel the same. It’s not necessarily about matching the job to the tractor it’s about having a nice comfortable cab tractor to work with. $30-$40k for 8000 series, yeah no thanks, I priced a Deutz-Fahr 5110g at the NC Farm Show today 100hp 4wd with three remotes, loader with third function around $70k, has DEF does not have DPF, so no regen. Which is the better return on investment? |
Which is the better return on investment? Beats me, which?
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Red Bank
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 7:15am |
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I don’t know that’s why I asked. Spend half the money of a new tractor on a 37-40 year old tractor? Which is the better investment?
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Ryan T
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 8:57am |
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Wow thanks for all the information still going to keep looking cause I know I want one
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jvin248
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 9:53am |
.
Repair parts availability is another factor to consider in your tractor shopping endeavor.
I just looked through the 'tractor data' site for all the 8000 AC models and roughly counted up the production numbers. Less than 9,000 units were made in their production run and less than two thousand a year sold at peak. How many parts were common with previous and later AC tractors? The 6,7,9000s? Otherwise repair parts are going to be exceptionally high priced and hard to even find junkyard parts.
I can't imagine there were more than a thousand AC dealerships in the US, so each was probably obligated to buy one to three of the 8000s to have on the lot (and keep AC afloat). These tractors were produced in the worst inflationary period where farmers were getting knocked out with high mortgages and equipment loans. These tractors must have been hard to sell back then.
Contrast that to the AC WDs that produced somewhere around 130,000 and WD45s that added another 100,000. WDs, and WCs too, had single years they sold over 30,000 units.
Those older tractors are surviving because there were so many of them.
Tractor desire can be emotional, but the way to get to be an old farmer is watching the numbers along the way. One of the ways inflation fools us all is older guys remember buying new pickups for $10,000 so when faced with average prices of $50,000 that seems like a lot, meanwhile young guys really only know $50,000 pickups with the fancy ones often hitting $75,000+ now. So the young guys 'pricing set point' or normal pricing expectations are much more accepting of the higher price ranges that make older guys complain.
I couldn't find any AC examples but another take on getting more horsepower...
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Tbone95
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 10:37am |
Red Bank wrote:
I don’t know that’s why I asked. Spend half the money of a new tractor on a 37-40 year old tractor? Which is the better investment? |
I read you wrong.....but still, yeah, right? Which is the better investment?
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JayIN
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 3:31pm |
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"Want" and "Need" are 2 completely different emotional states. Buy what you need. And if you can afford it, buy what you want.
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 6:02pm |
bigal121892 wrote:
Define Stupid dollars. |
$ 30,000 + for a 4020, $40,000+ for a 4630 . STUPID $$$$ !!! Are you a GREEN guy like Victory is becoming  ??
Edited by FREEDGUY - 04 Feb 2022 at 6:18pm
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victoryallis
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Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 7:02pm |
FREEDGUY wrote:
bigal121892 wrote:
Define Stupid dollars. |
$ 30,000 + for a 4020, $40,000+ for a 4630 . STUPID $$$$ !!! Are you a GREEN guy like Victory is becoming ?? |
Kinda hard to buy a post 1985 Allis Chalmers. The newest Allis Chalmers tractor is 36 years old. I’d love to own a Agco Allis 8785 BUT other than it’s the right color it’s hard to justify buying one over a Deere 6400. Their’s probably 20 times as many 6400 built so more in salvage yards, Deere dealer has a parts drop 9 miles away, and price is similar.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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