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Model C Flywheel Orientation

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Les Kerf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Model C Flywheel Orientation
    Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:33am
This proves that you cannot always go by the book when timing your engine Tongue

Yes, the #1 cylinder is actually at TDC (within a couple of degrees) and the yellow mark on the flywheel is indeed on the mark stamped TDC.


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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 8:20am
I dont get it... Isnt your "flywheel housing hole" to see the timing mark looking at that yellow line ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 9:03am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

I dont get it... Isnt your "flywheel housing hole" to see the timing mark looking at that yellow line ?


Quoting from my (not very reliable) I&T Shop Service manual Pg. 34, paragraph 'Ignition Timing':

"...To time the magneto to the engine, first crank engine until No. 1 piston is on its compression stroke and the flywheel timing mark is centered in inspection port (located in bottom of clutch housing)."

(italics and bolding added my me).

Methinks I need a better manual.


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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 9:44am
Im not sure , but i think the larger motors, maybe the WC or WD look thru the bottom ?  I have several 125 inch motors and they look thru the 1 inch port hole in the left side of the bell housing... Book might be a typo, referring to larger motor ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 10:09am
I agree. I have B's, C's, CA's and IB's. All have the inspection hole  for timing on the left side, where that mark is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 10:23am
I've always referred to the I&T manuals as the Butt First books, As after a long exposition of how to do something it ends in "but first..."
 Get yourself a proper AC service manual. A parts book and and operators manual is also a big help.
  As for the marks; The line going toward the center looks to be about right for the "Fire" mark and the upper one should be the "Center" mark.  As you say the picture shows at TDC, possible someone forced the flywheel on out of time to the crank bolt pattern.
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Les Kerf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 10:49am
The rest of the story:

My Brother bought this tractor 25+ years ago and used it sporadically around the place; it never started or ran very well but he didn't ask much of it either. Brother moved away 7 years ago and I bought the little C, drove it home and let it sit until summer of 2020.

Grandson getting old enough to play with tractors so I decided to fire it up. Nope. Rebuilt the carb which it sorely needed so wasn't wasted effort.

Magneto had no spark, pulled the mag, cleaned up the points, cap and rotor so it now had 'some' puny looking spark. Timed the mag EXACTLY as described in the book, and it WOULD NOT EVEN POP.

By this time I didn't trust ANYTHING about this tractor, and since a previous owner had installed a hydraulic pump drive on the front crank pulley, I installed a degree wheel on the front drive shaft.

After locating TDC compression stroke on #1 I proceeded to time magneto by using the opening of the breaker points rather than the impulse, and lo and behold, it ran! Not great, but at least I had noise and smoke now ;-)

By this point I didn't trust either the timing marks or the magneto, and having already wasted far too much of my misspent life messing around with magnetos, I ordered a distributor conversion kit from Steve at B&B Circuits.

Still not trusting the timing marks, I went back to the degree wheel on the front shaft and installed my shiny newly rebuilt distributor kit. This instantly turned that little AC into one of the best-starting engines I have ever owned, giving near-instantaneous starts every time. This reinforced my belief that the timing marks were wrong (or the flywheel was installed incorrectly).

Until now.

Based on what Steve mentioned above, and re-thinking the situation, I believe the real problem was in the magneto impulse mechanism because I had to set the magneto timing so far away from the book specifications to get it to run (albeit poorly).

It is now my opinion that the flywheel is actually correct as shown in my photo above. Thoughts, anyone?

I have no desire to fix the magneto BTW.




Edited by Les Kerf - 05 Jan 2022 at 10:51am
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 12:27pm
YEs, your photo of the crank pointed to the LEFT is correct.... I have several B tractors, and 3 with mags that i use at least once a month.. When the mag is GOOD and the timing is at TDC,  ( and i have 12 v system), the motor will roll over 1-2 times and be running.. NO excessive cranking needed.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 12:29pm
A MAG is a little different to install compared to a distributor, as you rotate the motor to the TDC mark and listen for the mag to "SNAP" and fire that plug.(impulse) ..The rotor does not point exactly at the #1 lug on the cap before the SNAP.

Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Jan 2022 at 12:30pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

... When the mag is GOOD ...


Yup.
I am convinced that mine does not qualify as "GOOD" Wink

Now onward to the initial objective of fixing the massive oil leak that happens whenever the tractor is driven up a steep hill.

Thanks for the help! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 5:37pm
Besides the Pan gasket, there is a seal on the crank shaft journal, and a WICK stuffed into a hole in the hollow crankshaft.. that was to drip a small amount of oil into the clutch mechanism... Those get HARD and leak excess after 70 years.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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