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magic number of 10,001

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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 5:13pm
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 12:02pm
Actually, even that magic number is irrelevant in many states.  If you're driving a Ford Focus, with a national company logo on the side, wearing a company hat or shirt, and have a product in the back seat, they CAN pull you in...  it's stupid, but they can.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 3:02pm
From all the cracked windshields, hide-away-spares, lights out and many other obvious. vehicle infractions I see every time I'm on the road, I think DOT should be able to run everyone through the scales/inspection stations, not just commercial vehicles.  And Yes, any vehicle with a company logo is technically a commercial vehicle.  
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

From all the cracked windshields, hide-away-spares, lights out and many other obvious. vehicle infractions I see every time I'm on the road, I think DOT should be able to run everyone through the scales/inspection stations, not just commercial vehicles.  And Yes, any vehicle with a company logo is technically a commercial vehicle.  

So, when I am out an about doing sales calls, with my personal vehicle w/logo’s on the door(magnets), I am in a commercial vehicle?
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 8:34pm
Commercial Drivers License (CDL) are a federal license that is issued by the state that you live in. They govern Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV). 

The rules concerning a CMV do not change from state to state. The trick is knowing if you have a CMV. If your GVW is over 26,000 pounds and you are doing anything for compensation, you are a CMV. I have told before about the guy who was hauling his own race car with a dually pickup and an enclosed trailer. Because the race car had the potential to earn prize money, he was a CMV.

"Not For Hire" placards make absolutely no difference.

If your truck/trailer combination is rated for over 26,000 pounds and is doing anything for any compensation, it is a CMV. It doesn't have to weigh that much, it just has to be rated for over 26,000. (If your trucks GVW is 12,001 pounds and your trailer GVW is 14,000 pounds, you are over the limit.)

This link is directly from NYS DMV.  The part about non-CMV varies from state to state, but the CDL requirements are the same for every state.



Edited by WF owner - 02 Apr 2021 at 8:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 9:18pm
re: So, when I am out an about doing sales calls, with my personal vehicle w/logo’s on the door(magnets), I am in a commercial vehicle?

I would say so... YOU ,as a salesman have the potential to make a sale....hence 'commercial'

do you claim 'mileage' when using your perosonl vehicle as a salesman ? if so ,that'd be 'commercial' ( claiming a business deduction ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 9:44pm
As I am just transitioning into the ‘sales’ side of the business this spring, I don’t know if the ‘claiming mileage’ is still in the tax code. I have written down the miles.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by Lars(wi) Lars(wi) wrote:

Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

From all the cracked windshields, hide-away-spares, lights out and many other obvious. vehicle infractions I see every time I'm on the road, I think DOT should be able to run everyone through the scales/inspection stations, not just commercial vehicles.  And Yes, any vehicle with a company logo is technically a commercial vehicle.  

So, when I am out an about doing sales calls, with my personal vehicle w/logo’s on the door(magnets), I am in a commercial vehicle?

IF you are hauling a product for sale YES you will need have a CDL, REGARDLESS the weight as is Depicted by labeling as a Commercial Vehicle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 5:37pm
My KW, will be used for hauling a RV Trailer, HOWEVER will be licensed at 54,000BL(MO Beyond Local good ALL States just NOT Apportioned) and be considered CMV but NOT For Hire, labeled as such so does not require a DOT Number.  So I can with my Class A drive it anywhere I choose to, will be susceptible to DOT inspection(Do NOT Care) and must weigh at scales,(AGAIN, Do NOT care).

Edited by DMiller - 03 Apr 2021 at 5:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 6:32pm
yeesh, life's too dang short to figure out the legal 'rules of the road'......
wouldn't want to be a commercial driver, heck I passed on getting my commercial endorsements for flying 4 decades ago....
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 6:41pm
Never heard of that before !!  


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Originally posted by Lars(wi) Lars(wi) wrote:

Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

From all the cracked windshields, hide-away-spares, lights out and many other obvious. vehicle infractions I see every time I'm on the road, I think DOT should be able to run everyone through the scales/inspection stations, not just commercial vehicles.  And Yes, any vehicle with a company logo is technically a commercial vehicle.  

So, when I am out an about doing sales calls, with my personal vehicle w/logo’s on the door(magnets), I am in a commercial vehicle?

IF you are hauling a product for sale YES you will need have a CDL, REGARDLESS the weight as is Depicted by labeling as a Commercial Vehicle.

I disagree. 

The only way he will need a CDL is if his GCWR is over 26,000 pounds. He will need USDOT numbers, and he must comply with all USDOT rules, but he won't need a CDL unless he exceeds 26,000 GCWR.


Edited by WF owner - 03 Apr 2021 at 8:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 9:54pm
Years ago I had to get a class D license. It covers the 10001 to 24999 weight limits. I don't have to do the D&A tests or do the physical. Been stopped and waved on thru. Its that simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 10:12pm
I was told that the 10001 thing referred to truck and trailer. So if I hook my 10,000 trailer, which weighs about 3,000 pounds, to my 9,500gvw F250, which weighs about 6,200, I can haul about 300 pounds, which would be me and a few tools!
Then there is the combination license, and then the physical, both of which I have been told are required if the trailer is 10,001 and up, but, w/o the combination license I was informed I cannot weigh more than the gross of my truck, including the trailer.
and then there is the issue of compensation.....if one is hauling a tractor for 'pulling', and there is prize money involved, no matter if any has been won, you qualify as 'commercial'.
I understand the need for safety, but this is asinine! I would just like to know the truth and how to prove it should I be challenged by the law.
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 10:26pm
while we are on the subject, last evening i had to run an errand, which had me travel a few miles on a interstate spur, 376. opposite lane (oncoming) had a big Dodge PU with what looked like it had been a full sized camper trailer scattered all over the road. Hard to say what happened, but PU was about 165 degrees from his original direction of travel, mostly still on the pavement, front wheels on the berm, still connected to the tongue of the trailer, or whatever he was towing. doesn't look like the PU rolled, but there wasn't much left of the trailer bigger than 3x4. I don't know if it rolled, or he got sideways and something else hit it or what, but it was a mess. didn't appear to be injuries, judging by the lack of much activity on the part of cops, firemen, and medical staff present as I rolled by.
That would ruin ones whole summer!
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 11:45am
The "10,001 and over" is strictly referring to a trailer being towed. The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR - with emphasis on combination) can not exceed 26,000 pounds.

As far as "commercial" or not commercial, basically, the rule is if you are doing anything that isn't personal, it is considered commercial. If you get into the FMCSA website, they explain it best. 

Below is a link. Everything that involves CDL (Class A, B & C) are Federal rules and the same in every state. Everything Class D and under may vary from state to state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 7:28pm
What gets me, are these rental companies like Sunbelt Rentals that pull a fuel trailer behind a pickup. 8 or 10 individual tanks that hold just under 101 gallons each. Bolted on a tandem axle trailer, bumber pull with a pintel hook or ball hitch. But, all the tanks are piped into a common manifold, with one 12 volt pump. Here’s the kicker: driver does not need a CDL , or hazmat endorsement. No placards in sight.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 2:32am
make any rule or law, and someone will find ways around them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 3:23am
If all the tanks are plumbed together and same materials then the total quantity is too high for no DL or Placards
Is not based on single container quantity but total volume of a chemical as the placard requirement.
Battery haulers have to be placarded for acid, each battery has far less than the required quantity for placarding yet the placard is required to Total volume carried.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:08am
DMiller, I agree. But for some reason out here in the ‘oil patch’ that is ignored.
I have maintained the ‘hazmat endorsement’ on my CDL my whole career.
Those drivers claim all the need to do is close the valves at the manifold, and they are good to go
On down the road.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:33am
DOT only enforces what is on the list for any given day. Some people think that just because they have never been caught for many years think that they are fine to continue what they've been doing. 
  Sign up-for any seminar that is being held in your area (Farm Bureau and Grange do a lot of them) and you will be enlightened as to what is legal and what isn't. You will also receive contact information for future questions.  A roadside stop will go much better for you if you are doing all you can to comply. Saying "I've done this for years and never had a problem before" won't cut it any more.  
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 10:25am
We often see charges as the result of an accident. We usually hear that people (defendants) didn't know about a law. Ignorance is no excuse and often very costly. I have seen them impound truck/trailer combinations, because they had no legal driver to legally drive it away. Towing and storage can run into a lot of money in a short time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:15pm
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