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frnkeore 
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Joined: 07 May 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
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 Topic: C for Pulling
Posted: 25 May 2019 at 3:30pm |
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Is the 3 speed C model worth getting to make a pull tractor?
If so, what can you do to the engine? I note that it has less HP than the CA.
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 25 May 2019 at 7:41pm |
It depends on what classes are available to run in your local area and what your expectations are for the tractor. If it was me I would want to run a B or C in a 2000 pound class. That will take a little bit of work, however the performance to cost ratio will put on a better show. The power that can be had from those CE blocks can be impressive. A good running stock motor will hold it's own in truly stock classes as most any other brand that will be comparable weight will be a smaller CID. Beyond that it will depend on how much you'd be willing to spend. Getting that 125 CID engine up close to 30HP is not all that much. More than twice that is doable and can be as reliable as a stock engine. If there is no real competition a C could run in heavier classes and do rather well. The problem with B&C tractors is the shorter wheelbase, which makes getting the perfect balance a tough task. tire size limitations of some rule can also make running a C challenging. I have run CAs in the 2500 pound classes and have one CA now that no one can beat, this CA is for sale. I run an open class in 3rd gear at about 10MPH. Watch this... [TUBE]xxEUbb1qNmo[/TUBE]
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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frnkeore
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Location: Southern Oregon
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 1:24am |
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I looked at the Nebraska tests and subtracting the the weight from both C (2599 lb) and CA (2763 lb), the C is 164 lb lighter. It would seem to be easy to get it under 2500 lb but, loosing 500 more, seems unrealistic and if it can be done, very costly!!
I didn't realize that the CA had a longer WB, I see it's 5" longer. Can that be addressed with draw bar height, to get all the weight on the rear?
My first issue was the gear ratio in 1st and second, with larger tires.
What mods would it take to get 30 HP?
Could I run 14.9 x 24's on it in the stock class? I have those tires on hand.
The reasons I'm interested in this is, because there is one available, that doesn't run but, it looks pretty good, by the pictures and is only $200.
Edited by frnkeore - 26 May 2019 at 1:27am
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 6:50am |
Frank, Only my 2 cents. I would start with a CA if it was me. Just seems like a better unit. Although I have never pulled either. Guess I just have a soft spot for a CA Narrow front! We had a Allis B on the farm. It did a lot of work. Spent many hours on it. Good luck with your decision. Sometimes even if a tractor is given to you it may not be a good value!:) I have had a couple of those that took a lot of time and dollars to get back to good operating tractors too. The important words in trying to find a good value in one of these is "condition, condition, condition"! The price on the C is about right for a non running tractor. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 26 May 2019 at 9:01pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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frnkeore
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Location: Southern Oregon
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:57pm |
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Thank you, Chris. I'll take your advice seriously. That's exactly why I asked here before I made a decision.
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 9:27am |
The real question is, as my first reply asked: What are your local rules and classes??? If you don't what to spend any money stay with the lightest class possible. A model C will get to 2000 easily, I have run a CA in the 2000 pound class a lot about 20 years ago, so I know for a fact that it is possible. Nothing really special, just get rid of everything that is not absolutely necessary. If you are looking to be a top competitor, pick your class, then your tractor.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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frnkeore
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Location: Southern Oregon
Points: 362
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:27pm |
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Paul,
At least for the present, I will run USAP, Farm Stock, 3 MPH.
Reading the rules, and applying them to a C, I believe that I could run 14.9 x 24 tires and pull in the 2500 class.
Will the C gearing be a problem for that?
Will the stock HP pull that tire and gear?
I note that the tire diameter increase, will put me at or above 3 mph at 1500 rpm.
Or would I have to go to a CA for that?
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 7:19pm |
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Actually for the Grampa gear classes a C just may be a slight bit better than a CA. The low gear in a CA is too slow for 3MPH and 2nd is too fast. The 14.9x 24 tires will also put you just a little too fast in 1st gear with a C, unless the tracks in your area are crappy and allow a lot of wheel spin. Ideally you want to be just under the spped limit when the motor pulls down slightly.
I gave up the restrictive classes a couple decades ago. Too much whining over a 50cent throphy.
Edited by PaulB - 27 May 2019 at 7:26pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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frnkeore
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Joined: 07 May 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Points: 362
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:26am |
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I did a more precise calculation on speed/tire combo's. If the C has 11.2's, a 14.9 will give it 2.9 mph @ 1500 rpm, by Goodyear tire specs.
I can only assume that the best way to get more HP would be compression, a good valve job and matching the ports. Will a larger carb help any? If so, which one?
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Ken in Texas
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Location: Henderson, TX
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:49am |
Frank Think about the option of mounting 28 inch rubber on a C . My stock engine CA was outpulled by a stock engine C in #3000 class at the State Fair of LA Shreveport antique tractor pull. I believe his 28 rubber gave him a advantage over my 13-6 24s. Bodene is a forum member and may join this thread because he has the C puller that outpulled my CA. Ken
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 5:41am |
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I can only assume that the best way to get more HP would be compression, a good valve job and matching the ports. Will a larger carb help any? If so, which one?
[/QUOTE]
That is a good start. A carb from a CA would be my first choice, due to the stock engine speed you will be restricted to.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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frnkeore
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Joined: 07 May 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Points: 362
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:32pm |
 Ken in Texas wrote:
Frank Think about the option of mounting 28 inch rubber on a C . My stock engine CA was outpulled by a stock engine C in #3000 class at the State Fair of LA Shreveport antique tractor pull. I believe his 28 rubber gave him a advantage over my 13-6 24s. Bodene is a forum member and may join this thread because he has the C puller that outpulled my CA. Ken |
Ken, yes, I'd love to hear Bodene's thoughts on this. It's seems like even 13.6 x 28 would take me out of full throttle 3 mph class and I already have 14.9 x 24's on hand and wheels would be easier to get. It looks like the C will take regular 4 loops? Paul, I was comparing the C to the CA spec's, last night in that G-B-C-CA manual, provided by a member hear and I believe the C & CA have the same throttle size (7/8). Is the venturi larger in the CA or, would just changing out the main jet, do it or, is there something else?
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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frnkeore
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Location: Southern Oregon
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 1:06pm |
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Paul,
One other thing that I would like to ask about. Are you using larger valves for your higher RPM engine? Are you also using a reground cam?
At 1500 rpm, I think the factory valve size is fine.
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 29 May 2019 at 1:48am |
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The CA venturi is a little larger. The stock valves are fine for a stock speed engine.
Edited by PaulB - 29 May 2019 at 5:34am
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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