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Wd45 puller

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Trenthorn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 May 2019 at 2:13pm
I have a wd45 I bought over a year ago and it dumped the antifreeze I to the oil. Since I'm going to be overhauling it i thought about a different motor. I see where people use an m code or e code engine. Which one wood be better?. I also wont be farming with it being as I have another one for that. So I wondered what some mods would be to get more power out of it while I'm going. Been getting last or next to last so I would like to be a little more competitive.
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:53pm
Any D-17 engine is an "M" code and is more HP than a stock WD45 engine. The Gleaner model "E" combine had D-17 engines in them. Some were "M" codes and some were "Z" codes with the "Z" code having 4-5 more HP than an "M" code. This was due to a higher compression ratio.
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Trenthorn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trenthorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 4:02pm
Ok that's what I was wondering. I'm afraid the block is cracked on this one and thought about going this route to increase power
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Trenthorn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trenthorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 4:18pm
What would be some upgrades I could do to the z code engine when I overhaul it once I acquire one
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allisplumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 5:59pm
There is a E combine motor for sale in the classified ads on here if you didn’t see it yet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 6:07am
D17 moter with wd pistons will give you more hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 7:21am
There is really NOTHING you can do to increase the torque/HP that doesn't require going inside of the engine EXCEPT installing a larger carburetor or changing the venturi in yours to make it flow more air. A larger body carb will require opening up the throat on your manifold, but I don't consider that to be going into the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trenthorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:04am
Ok I've read about doing that. Some have said putting a d19 carb on makes a big difference. I was going to port and polish the manifold as well as I could. And ive also seen where some have had the cam ground to 175 specs, didn't know how much if a difference that would make. Regardless of what I get I will probably overhaul it just to make sure everything is ok. I've read that the wd pistons didnt do to much?
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:43am
I've never known of a combine engine that was ever overhauled. They don't have that many hrs on them. The 175 cam grind is good for maybe 4 or 5 HP.  D-19 carb at least that much. To switch to WD pistons is a crap shoot because it depends on what the compression is when you get done. An M-code engine will have 140-145 lbs of compression. A Z code should have 170 lbs of compression. There was more than one WD piston and unless you do better than 145 lbs of compression you'll gain nothing and maybe lose because they are a flat top instead of a Power Crater bowl.
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Trenthorn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trenthorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:55am
Ok I appreciate it. I've read pros and cons on the pistons. Ive seen where some use wd pistons and some use 175 pistons so I was wondering. What about the govener spring?
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 10:26am
Maximum engine speed depends on what your RULES allow.  Normally a D-17 governor spring gets you the most RPM's (2000-2100) as it is the stiffest/strongest spring they made, regardless of what others say. I have no idea if you can get a correct D-17 governor spring from AGCO anymore. Last time I got one it was of incorrect stiffness and I went to a salvage tractor and got one.  I installed A-C OEM 175 pistons in a customers WD when I overhauled it 30 yrs ago and it had exactly the correct compression as a WD would have had. The only thing a gained was the Power Crater bowl and a different exhaust sound that I say comes from the bowl design piston top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 11:50am
Wouldn't you need more cubes or RPM for the D19 carb to make sense?  262 vs 226.  I would think it would take some mods to need the flow from a carb for an engine 15% bigger.
AaronSEIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 12:05pm
A D-19 size carb on a stock D-17 engine will make more HP. It would probably burn 5 gallons per hr versus 4 gallons per hr under full load, but it will increase the output of a stock engine, yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trenthorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 12:19pm
Ok I appreciate the help I've got some things to go off of now thank you
1956 WD45, 1970 190xt Series 3, 712,716,917
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

I've never known of a combine engine that was ever overhauled.
Kinda straying a bit off topic but when Dad bought his E at Suess Equipment in Stewartville Mn, the dealership found that the previous owner had been running it without an air filter. They overhauled it just before Dad bought it. That was in 1977.


Edited by Lonn - 14 May 2019 at 12:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

I've never known of a combine engine that was ever overhauled.
Kinda straying a bit off topic but when Dad bought his E at Suess Equipment in Stewartville Mn, the dealership found that the previous owner had been running it without an air filter. They overhauled it just before Dad bought it. That was in 1977.
  That would do it!
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 1:11pm
My WD45 has:
D19 Carb with large venturi
manifold ports smoothed up to match head
Z Code D17 motor with stock power craters 
Different Gov. Spring. Runs 2200 RPM now.
I run pump gas
I don't run out of power with 14.9x28 or 13.6x38's at 3 to 3.5 mph 

If I wanted to run 6 mph class then it needs more a**

Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 12:02pm
I'm just getting into pulling and run the USAP rules. My first pull will be in one month  and will use my D17 and Ford 850.

I'm supprized that no one as mentioned the over bore piston/sleeves, such as these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLIS-CHALMERS-4-1-8-OVERBORE-PISTON-SLEEVE-KIT-170-175-WD45-D17-G226-4-CYL-GAS/171725052412?hash=item27fb9c59fc:g:UXcAAOSwPhdVCj7Q

The larger carb should help, even more with this addition. What is the throttle bore and venturi size on the D19 carb?

DrAllis, can you give us the specs on the 175 cam?

In my rules, I see no prohibition to engine mods, only MPH. Do any of the organizations have engine rules? I don't even  (in my rules) see where you have to use the original engine.



Edited by frnkeore - 15 May 2019 at 12:09pm
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 12:19pm
You have to be VERY careful about any overbore kit. Many of them have LESS compression than an M code engine and nowhere near a Z code engine. So, you've spent a bunch of $$$$$$ to LOSE HP ??   You haven't said what weight classes or rear tire size. If you are staying with a 28 inch tire, I don't think (at this point anyway) you need to tear down a good running engine just to run low gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 1:29pm
Yes, not all the kits are the same
I put WD Flat tops in my D17 and had to search a lot to find a kit that guaranteed them to be high compression. I have 200 psi now which is a good bit higher than stock. I run 92 octane. It has a bit more pep than before but I am running slow class so it doesn't matter a lot. 
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 4:06pm
I use the  SK156 piston kit it is high compression 4-1/8 for wd engine piston pin is lower that way the piston comes up higher to the head use hi octane gas Charlie 175 has it right not less then 92 octane I built 7 like that used d17 carb had cam work done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 4:30pm
The only way to know what the compression ratio is, on any engine, is to know what the deck height is for the block, the rod length (7.5") and what the compression distance is for the piston as well as the recess volume of the piston/combustion chamber and finally 1/2 the stroke.

My AC Service Manual, does not give that info. Is it available somewhere or do we have that info on this forum?  Such as the cup volume and the standard AC compression ht?

The numbers 2.313, 2.387 & 2.468 are the compression heights of the pistons. The C/H is from the center of the wrist pin, to the top of the piston.

I do have a old TRW catalog (1978) that has this info:


Edited by frnkeore - 15 May 2019 at 5:53pm
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 4:41pm
My kit makes it 10.1..1 C/R
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Alvin M Alvin M wrote:

My kit makes it 10.1..1 C/R

So your kit would be like the SA165A TRW kit?
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 4:49pm
Are your pistons flat tops?
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savedallis1953 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 5:41pm
Question for DrAllis, I have a friend that uses only WD's for pulling, he mentioned something about the gearing being better for pulling over the WD-45. I am sure 1st is taller in the WD and same 2nd &3rd for both is this an accepted rule?
1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:09am
Low gear in a straight stick WD is faster than any WD45 low gear.  They called a WD  2 1/2 MPH and the WD45 2 1/3 MPH and remember there was one size difference in rear tires too.  "An accepted rule"  ??  The rules for pulling don't specify gear ratios, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Some rules require low gear only, but that may be all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:41am
WD I could only do 1st gear due to speed
WD45 I can do 1st or 2nd depending on track conditions.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 10:05am
Does anyone know what the deck height is for the 226, D17 engine?
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 11:37am
Is there anyone on this AC forum that knows what the deck height is on the 226 engine?

It one of the most important building blocks to modify or verify a engine build.
Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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