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rieg 
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 Topic: 7060 Jack Bolts
Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:20pm |
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We always use antiseize on the every thing before putting back together when moving hubs on our Allis and JD tractors. We have never had any trouble with moving after that.
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rieg
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 7:47pm |
I did mention the big sledge in my second post last Sunday. I also used a 3/4" drive air impact gun. Didn't have to use heat. I broke the flange off a wedge on a 4250 JD years ago. Talked to the service manager at the dealership and he said to use a big sledge and hit the end of the axle as hard as you can after you have full torque on the pusher bolts. I think that made the difference between getting the centers off the 8550 or not getting them off. Sledge hit, re-torque, sledge hit , re-torque. All of a sudden the center starts moving. One made a pop sound after I walked away and then off it came. Big sledge is a very important part of the procedure.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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leoversteeg11
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 6:30pm |
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My 7030, 7080,8070, both wedges are tapped and we used 4 bolts + lube + sledge +heat every single time.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 6:25pm |
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I am not going to take sides here, because using two jack bolts and using four can both be right ways to do it. One of the first jobs I got assigned to when I first started working in the shop at a farm equipment dealership was a three way tire swap involving 8000 series tractors; all brand new. For simplicity we'll call the tractors A, B , and C. Rear wheels (cast centers and all) from tractor A went onto tractor B, B to C, and C to A. Don't remember the fine details, but all were FWA, and some front wheels may have been changed, too. It came down to the particular size tire that one customer wanted, and still having matching ratios between front and rear. I had never done the job in my life, much less even had a clue how to. Bosses instructions were to put the keyway up, pull the bolts out of the bottom wedge, and use the special bolts, as he called them (the jack bolts) to push the bottom wedge out. With air impacts and having two small forklifts to handle the wheels, the whole job went off without a snag. Never took a single keyed wedge out. BUT.....everything was BRAND NEW! I've never had to do the job on a 7 or 8 thousand series since, but I have no doubt that years of rust could change the whole scope of things. If I had to do the job again, long before I would put enough torque on a jack bolt to break an ear off, I would use four bolts on both wedges. I have removed wheel centers several times on D19/one ninety and XT tractors that have much age on them, and have never had an issue. I ALWAYS clean the jack bolt hole threads with a tap, brake parts cleaner, and compressed air until they are about flawless. Then I use grease, not oil, on the threads in the hole and on the jack bolt, plus I grease the pointed tip of the jack bolt. Go from bolt to bolt with the air impact and just chatter a little on each one, and never had one put up much of a fight. Guess when I get back to doing 7 or 8 thousand series ones again, I'll use the "clean and grease" method and try getting out JUST the non-keyed wedge. But as I stated previously, long before I am putting enough pressure on to bust off an ear, I'll use four jack bolts and take out both wedges.
Now, put the gloves away and let's all get along. We can't afford to lose ANY members off of this forum. Any and all advice from everyone is necessary to keep the old allis spirit alive. Darrel
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Tbone95
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 5:37pm |
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Ok, back when I first got my big Allis, I got the advice on how to move the wheels on a different forum. Torque the jack bolts, whack end of axle a few times, repeat. No mention of axle whacking in this conversation! For me, a 7045 and 2 jack bolts (pretty sure? Maybe 3?). Only 1 of the split bushings in either case...And the left wheel moved with GREAT difficulty! But with perseverance it came loose.
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bigal121892
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 3:38pm |
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I still remember the year we went from 36" rows down to 30" rows. On our 7/8000 series tractors, we would have had a mess if we had tried to use just two jack bolts, as it was bad enough with using four. Got to go with the Doc on this one.
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ABDave
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 3:01pm |
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That's what happened in my case. Both large casting were pushed off the wedges. However, I used the four jack bolt method so the casting didn't have a choice.
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Lonn
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 2:49pm |
 littlemarv wrote:
Someone needs to make a video demonstrating whatever in the hell you guys are trying to do |
Best post of the hole blamed thread! 
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8070220
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Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 10:22am |
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Any one still need them I got a set of 3 here still in the agco bag I sell and I think I got one that is not in the bag PM me if u need a set I have some 190 to .
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Kevin in WA
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 10:44pm |
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Well, it took John Deere till the 55 series to figure out that its easier to push the wheel off the wedges than to try and push one wedge out by itself.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 9:43pm |
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Ok guys. When I made the suggestion near the beginning of this thread that they should have included four instead of three pusher bolts, it was because of my experience with an 8550 and both wedges were threaded. My 220 fwd is next so I will likely find only threaded holes in one wedge so will only be able to use three pushers. I have NOT read any of the service books regarding this procedure. Remember that the pushers push the cast center off the wedges. I can see why A-C made the change.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 5:37pm |
Dale Hardtke wrote:
The information I have came from Allis Chalmers service publication. 7030 Thru 7080 dated Nov. 1975 and the procedure with two jack bolts likewise. I continue to not know how jack bolts can be used in bushing flange holes that are not tapped ???? I have a feeling that this issue / discussion is more about the size of your head than about sharing information or helping each other. THEREFORE I"M DONE WITH YOU. |
DUDE, you might mean well with your (up until now) replies,but you are stepping on some very descent toes and I am pretty sure you 2 are NOT dancing !! Please reign it back a notch or 2, JMO.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 8:23am |
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They can't be used in bushings that aren't tapped. Those bushings you are looking at must be from a 210/220 era tractor and the keyed bushings weren't tapped and the other bushing was tapped in all three holes. The 7000 series has a different p/n for the bushings and (as far as I know) were always tapped in both bushings only the outside two holes, therefore the need for using four jack screws. I suppose there is a chance that tractors have had bushings changed over the years and the parts may not be correct for the model tractor they are on ?? There's also a chance that the publication you read is in error, not being updated to the newer 4 pusher bolt design. People come on this site all the time asking for help and advice. Incorrect advice doesn't help them and can make things even worse. No one is blaming you for intentionally and deliberately giving incorrect advice. There is supposed to be a difference between the 210/220 era wheel bushings and the 7000 series bushings and the number of pusher bolts that are used. Accept that as fact instead of being angry.
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Dale Hardtke
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 7:52am |
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The information I have came from Allis Chalmers service publication. 7030 Thru 7080 dated Nov. 1975 and the procedure with two jack bolts likewise. I continue to not know how jack bolts can be used in bushing flange holes that are not tapped ???? I have a feeling that this issue / discussion is more about the size of your head than about sharing information or helping each other. THEREFORE I"M DONE WITH YOU.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 7:05am |
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The original post was for 7000 series tractor, a 7060 to be specific. If one reads the Owners Manual, it tells how to go about this procedure. It has you using all four pusher screws in both bushings. Don't take my advice, look in the Owners Manual. Many times only two of the screws are needed on the non-keyed bushing, but there are some of those times when all four are required to get things busted loose. Like I said, I think the Engineers learned something from the 210/220 and knew they sometimes needed to be applying pressure to both bushings, not one.
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amac
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Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 7:57pm |
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Have to agree with the Dr on this one. When removing wheels from the axle for painting the wheel center always gets pushed off of the wedges. Then the wedges can be removed.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 5:38pm |
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Obviously the three pusher bolts on the non-keyed bushing design wasn't good enough. That's why they "re-designed" it to four pusher bolts in BOTH bushings. For those of us that have had to use all four pusher bolts (because two wouldn't get it done) we noticed that the whole wheel center gets pushed off of BOTH bushings. They are stuck to the axle, which is why sometimes two pusher bolts is inadequate. Any other questions ??
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Dale Hardtke
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Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 9:18am |
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BrianC You are correct and explained the procedure correctly. The dowel bushing half needs to be secured tight against the wheel casting to locate the wheel properly. The dowel half bushing that you might have removed could have the 7/8-12 holes tapped, but not all dowel half bushings did. Many had just a clearance hole for 3/4 -10 hex head bolt. This is why Allis Chalmers service publication instructs to use two jack bolts in the no dowel bushing to remove the wheel castings. I just do not get it. If you follow this procedure you will be labeled as FOOLISH by some that should know better.
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BrianC
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Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 7:44am |
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This is for Marv, but others please comment if I got it right.
Open up the Agco parts book online for 7060, go to page 302.
Study that. The bushings have bore inside to the axle diameter, tapered on the outside to fit the tapered hole in the wheel disk. The bushing #7, with the 2 pins also has a machined in key to fit the key way slot on the axle. I presume the lip of that bushing contacts the wheel face. This bushing therefore locates on a face, a tapered bore and two pins, and locates the axle concentric with the wheel. It is highly constrained dimensionally, so must be machined right. Three 3/4-10 bolts secure it to the wheel.
The other bushing, #8, the simple one, is placed in there and then it's (3) 3/4-10 bolts are tightened. Because of the taper in the wheel disc and matching taper on the bushing, as the 3/4-10 bolts are tightened it is wedge locked tight. The lip on this bushing doesn't contact the wheel.
How to take it apart to remove wheel or adjust thread width.
You have to pop out loose the #8 bushing some how. Remove the (3) 3/4-10 bolts securing bushing #8. Now come the use of the jack bolts. Little design details. In the wheel disk are the 3/4-10 threaded holes. They are not drilled through, but rather are blind holes. The (2) end holes in the head lip of #8 bushing are threaded 7/8-12. The holes function is as clearance holes for the 3/4-10 bolts. Other function is they provide threads for the jack bolts to do its job. The jack bolt- imagine a 7/8-12 full threaded bolt, 6" long. Now turn down the end to maybe 5/8" (to clear the 3/4-10 threads), 3" long.
Insert the jack bolts into #8 holes, engage the threads. The point of the bolt will clear the 3/4" threads in the wheels holes. Eventually the tip of the jack bolt will bottom out in the blind hole of the wheel. Now turn hard with a wrench and you have a pushing out action to force that tapered bushing out loose.
At some point the bushing #7 also got threaded 7/8-12 on its holes. This is the two or four jack-bolt debate.
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ABDave
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Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 12:01am |
Well I got lucky. I was chat'n with my neighbour who told me of a fella a few miles away who once had a 7030, so I called him and sure enough he had those jack bolts and said I was welcome to use'm.
Ron Thanks for the tip. Should have thought of that. 'till later Dave
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:49pm |
 Can you see the triangle wedge on the axle? The pusher bolts go in the holes that currently have the 3 regular bolts in them to tighten the wedge on the axle. The pusher bolts are tapered to loosen the wedges.
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littlemarv
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:27pm |
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Someone needs to make a video demonstrating whatever in the hell you guys are trying to do.... I see this topic come up now and then, and would be interested in learning the how and why of whatever jack bolts are used for.
I may never have an Allis that new or large....(never say never)!
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Dale Hardtke
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:03pm |
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Ed: You are absolutely correct. Lots of the two piece bushing sets do not have tapped 7/8 -12 holes to accept the jack bolts in the dowel half. I just checked approx. 30 sets of 3.625 3.750 4.000and found that about half of them did not have tapped holes for jack bolts. Maybe that is why the service publication does not mention using four jack bolts.
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Michael V (NM)
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:36am |
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I need to fix a leakin axle seal on my 7060,, so I'll be lookin for a set of these bolts...and a tap.I would like to move the hubs "in" a few inches also...I think the side with the leaky seal prolly break loose fairly easy,, now the other,,,, gonna be different...
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Hurst
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:47am |
If you need a 7/8-12 tap, looks like they aren't too expensive. I just ran across this on google. I think it might be cheaper than the usual price for a standard bolt tap of the same dimensions!
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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Mikez
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:19am |
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Ed you stopped before 8000. Thanks, then we can have a beer lol
Edited by Mikez - 12 Nov 2018 at 8:52am
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 7:37am |
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Just to add a little clarity, the D19/190/200/D21/7000 use the smaller trianglular hub, which only uses 3 bolts to hold it tight, but they also use all 3 holes tapped 3/4" Coarse to use the smaller jack bolts. The 210/220 use the bigger 2 piece wedges, (and jack bolts 7/8" -12)which have 3 bolts on each half. The thought of 3 jack bolts used on these is because the one half has tapped holes, the other half does not. It seems to me the need for 4 jack bolts came later in the 7000 series run, the 7010/7020/8010 only use 4 bolts to tighten the 2 wedges(a way to cheapen the cast hubs) and I think all 4 bolt holes are tapped for jack bolts. If the hubs are tapped for 4 by all means use them if you have them. But if only 3 are tapped, well, that answers that lol! Now, lets all have a beer and shoot the $h!t! lol!
Edited by injpumpEd - 12 Nov 2018 at 12:38pm
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Dale Hardtke
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 7:23am |
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FREEGUY: The bushing used on the AC 190 is a one piece bushing with smaller jack bolts. Totally different than the two piece bushing used on other model Allis Chalmers tractors. Dr. Allis wil probably call you foolish if you do not use four jack bolts but three is all that is used.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:21am |
Don't know if they are the same,but I looked up bolts for the XT;part #70235674- takes 3 bolts in this application. I googled that # and found an outlet for them for $83  ,I would hope that is for all 3?? I suppose that might be less expensive in the end vrs. labor setting up and machining from scratch ?
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:10am |
Ron, send me a PM, I'll sell you some pusher bolts reasonable. I don't need 12
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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