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Coytee 
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Location: lenoir city, tn
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 Topic: 6080 Question
Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 9:52am |
Hi, New to forum...
Found someone who's selling a 6080. It was his fathers and his father has passed and the son has bought a newer tractor with cab...
The 6080 has clearly been kept under cover for years....very clean looking.
Seller had no knowledge of the Thrust bearing issues on the machine (nor did I so I don't/can't fault him for this)
Looking at the tractor and never having looked over an AC before, I had no way to visually tell if the bearing was fixed or not.
I didn't notice anything on the front of the engine that would be considered a 'bra'. I could not find the serial number of the machine to dig into age. If the serial number was next to the clutch pedal....then bluntly.... it was worn and not readable.
None the less.... that's just the precursor...
My question resides with the hand clutch (is it correct to call it a clutch?) on the right side of the machine.
It was in the pulled back position which I understand to be the position that keeps it under pressure (like pushing and holding the clutch on your car)
Bottom line.... he thought they ALWAYS had it in this position but for maybe when they are specifically using the mower (this machine was their dedicated mowing machine)
So this gets me wondering since I don't know the status of any thrust bearing in there...
The following is essentially a question
Worst case: They have the original (bad setup) thrust bearing in there and they keep the clutch pulled back as a matter of practice
Best case: Machine had any given factory fix (so I presume the thrust bearing isn't now an issue???) BUT....they keep the clutch pulled back as a matter of practice.
What might be a result of that lever being held back all the time?
Good points on the tractor (and mower), they look like they've spent their life under cover (mower is a Bush Hog 315 and according to BH, they STOPPED making those about 50 years ago. I'd believe it if you told me it was only 10 years old!!
Thanks for any thoughts.
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WNYBill
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Location: WNY
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 12:01pm |
If the owner has the Owners Manual, get and read it. The 6000 series is a Fiat tractor with an Allis engine. The PTO is an abomonation, tractor has a dual clutch.... one is for the PTO and operates with the long lever on the right the other is for the transmission and operates with the foot pedel. The long lever should always be in the forward (engaged) position. You only puill it back to stop the PTO while operating a piece of equipment. You use the push/pull lever on the left to disengage the PTO.
When the long lever is pulled back it puts pressure on the crank and in time it will ruin the crank bearings. The "bra" is simply a bracket across the front of the engine with a bearing that puts pressure on the crank in reverse of what pulling the lever back does.
I do not know how you would tell if the crank bearings were damaged, maybe Dr Allis or someone will chime in here.
I think they are a great tractor we have a 6060, same tractor, just less HP.
Bill
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victoryallis
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 3:04pm |
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We’ve been slightly less structured than most on constantly have the PTO lever on the right and we have a combined 20,000 on two tractors. If we are using the PTO in one field we’ll pull the lever on the right back while switching fields. My Allis mechanic friend put the bra on in no time.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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CrestonM
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 4:32pm |
I'm a little confused, as I've only been around a 6000 series tractor once in my life...why is that long lever PTO clutch necessary? From what I've read it sounds like that lever just disengages the PTO when pulled back? If so, why not just disengage the PTO with the other lever? Sorry if this is a dumb question.
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Coytee
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Location: lenoir city, tn
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 4:49pm |
Learning about these units over the past week... I've heard them described a bit as a squirrely design (my words). The engine is Allis and the frame is Fiat. (or something close to that)
So it's Fiat that came up with the weird setup.
I'm guessing, but comparing it to our IH 444, you have to do a full clutch to disengage the blades whereas with this, I guess you can clutch with the right hand and keep moving to your next field without stopping. Let clutch out and keep on keeping on.
(??)
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Coytee
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 4:58pm |
With all these levers needed to engage/disengage the mower, in addition to the foot clutch, it seems these machines can be a workout for someone!!
I say that tongue in cheek as someone who two years ago, had "frozen shoulder" and at the same time, rotator cuff surgery AND a SLAP tear (whatever that is/was!) and then LAST year, in the OTHER shoulder, fell and broke the humerus in two just below the ball. Spent six weeks in an imobilazation sling and am currently at round 15 weeks of therapy trying to get my strength & range of motion back.
So now, with two flailing arms.... I'm looking at a machine with levers everywhere.
I just see some twisted humor in that.
:)
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Steve Zidlicky
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 5:03pm |
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Creston, since this subject has been discussed several times by several people, some appear to have never used a 6000 series tractor I will answer your question since I have owned a 6060 since 1983. the long lever on the right is the live power part of the pto. every one should know what that is. the rod with the knob on it coming thru the floor on the left side of the seat engages the coupling on the power shaft. if you did not have the pto clutch lever on the right it would be just like the pto on a non live power tractor.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 5:17pm |
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If you look at the crankshaft pulley and it is 100% open to the front, it doesn't have the kit on it. If it has the kit, you cannot get the fan belt off the crank pulley, without somewhat disassembling the kit.
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WestAllisWD45
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 5:33pm |
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Worked many hours on a 6080, dad had one new in '81-82. I'll bet last night's lotto ticket that after 35+ years if the beast is still going strong, it's safe to say the trust bearing kit has been installed. We were not religious in kicking the PTO out and then letting the lever go forward except during tilling season when PTO was never needed. Ours is still going strong, albeit a new owner, but a satisfied owner.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 7:58pm |
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Dads 60060 was purchased in 1981. One of the first sold in our area. It has been a great tractor. Does a nice job baling. Our practice has always been the right hand pto clutch disconnect lever in the forward position when not in use. When engaging the pto, that lever is pulled back in the disconnect position, tractor brought to an idle, push in foot clutch, pull the left hand lever up, slowly engage right hand lever. Pull right lever back to disengage pto clutch when traveling across the field to another windrow. We have never ever left it disengaged for long periods time. Dads 6060 does not have the thrust bearing support although I have sent SLI an email requesting a price and availability. We just installed a new pto and main clutch this spring. The pto clutch looked very well but we replaced it since we had the tractor split. First clutch replacement since it was new. Highly recommend the 6000 series to anyone. Like any model, properly used and maintained they will give the owner many years of great service. The 433T is a wonderful engine with loads of power.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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AC720Man
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 8:04pm |
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How many hours are on the 6080? Sounds like you found a nice 6080 if its been covered. A few pictures would be great if you can post them.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 8:14pm |
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You can get an idea of the thrust bearing wear by leaving the PTO lever forward and use a crowbar or something similar to pry the front crankshaft pulley forward and backwards in the engine.
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 8:23pm |
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victoryallis
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Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 9:18pm |
 WestAllisWD45 wrote:
Worked many hours on a 6080, dad had one new in '81-82. I'll bet last night's lotto ticket that after 35+ years if the beast is still going strong, it's safe to say the trust bearing kit has been installed. We were not religious in kicking the PTO out and then letting the lever go forward except during tilling season when PTO was never needed. Ours is still going strong, albeit a new owner, but a satisfied owner.
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Want my address to send that winning ticket to ? Our ‘’85 made it to within the last couple years before the bra went on. Only reason we added it was to combat shifting problems the crank travel created.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Coytee
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 6:56am |
AC720Man wrote:
How many hours are on the 6080? Sounds like you found a nice 6080 if its been covered. A few pictures would be great if you can post them. |
According to the pictures, the meter shows 5,703 hours.
Seems I'm having trouble adding another picture. This will give a flavor though.
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Coytee
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 6:58am |
AC720Man wrote:
How many hours are on the 6080? Sounds like you found a nice 6080 if its been covered. A few pictures would be great if you can post them. |
cripes... trying to post pictures, said I took too long and it's spam...
All of them say error... (wonder if file size (around 300Kb) is too big?)
I'll try when I get home later today.
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Coytee
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 6:58am |
Well dayum.... all those issues and the pictures DID post!
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Coytee
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 7:11am |
Somewhat of a side question....
Is there any way to turn that exhaust stack downward?
I'm always hitting a branch or two around here and on my backhoe (JCB), the exhaust pipe takes the brunt of the scrape... as would this unit.
Gets old having a branch gain tension by the exhaust stack only to let go and make a swipe at you as you're driving by!!
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JayIN
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 7:58am |
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Get a 1/2 rod and make a limb riser to the top of the pipe. Like dozers do.
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 1:29pm |
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Don't see a bra but it may be okay. Be nice if you could figure a way to pry back and forth on crank pulley just to see how much "clunk" was there. Looks like a keeper to me. New fluids and proper lever operation may get you many trouble free hours. Good luck!
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Coytee
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 3:08pm |
Couple questions if I may...is this a 6v or 12v system? (I'm guessing 12 but, I saw two batteries in the front which has me curious)
Is it the starter that requires two batteries? Could the starter be swapped out so you could get by with a single battery? (I'm guessing if so, that would create other issues)
He said you generally need the ether in cold weather to start this. I'm just wondering out loud but why would a tractor need ether yet, our IH 444 doesn't nor does my JCB backhoe.
Is it a function of how fast they spin the engine to start?
Just wondering outloud...
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allis6080
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 7:33pm |
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Is that the one that was on Knoxville Craig's list? Not a bad looking tractor. I think it even came with the option to buy the batwing mower.
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6060 s\n 5016
1947 JD B
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 8:11pm |
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Many of these were 14:1 compression.They dont start great in warm weather! Block heater or ether when cool/cold. 2 batteries help with the extra cranking. You can put 8010 sleeves and pistons in and it will start.
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victoryallis
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 4:56am |
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12v system second battery isn’t all that necessary we got by for years on 1 before adding a second. Even at 14:1 they start good down to 32-34 degrees after that we plug them in. Ether just wrecks motors.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Coytee
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 6:33am |
allis6080 wrote:
Is that the one that was on Knoxville Craig's list? Not a bad looking tractor. I think it even came with the option to buy the batwing mower. |
It is and I think I'm getting the mower too (Bush Hog 315)
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Coytee
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 6:37am |
victoryallis wrote:
Ether just wrecks motors. |
Since none of our machines require Ether, I don't have much history with it.... that said, I was having a voice in the back of my head that was asking me "Isn't Ether supposed to be bad for diesels?"
<<shruggs shoulders>>
I guess it is what it is.
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Coytee
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 6:41am |
Tractor question.
Since this has two clutches....
Do the blades keep turning when:
1. The tractor is at a stand still while in neutral? (but blades engaged) 2. Foot clutch fully engaged?
I'm guessing the answer is yes which is kind of intersting. Our 444 has the dual clutch thing and when you stop (clutch engaged) the blades stop....and I don't always want that to happen.
Edited by Coytee - 10 Jul 2018 at 6:42am
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Allis in farmland
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:14am |
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You get your 6080's started down to 32 degrees with one battery no ether, not being plugged in??? Do you hold the glow plug for 5 minutes or are you talking 32 degrees Celsius? I smell some BS!
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Steve Zidlicky
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:23am |
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Coytee--I sent you a pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:28am |
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The crankshaft thrust kit isn't on that tractor.
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