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My B won't turn over!

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Syslogv4 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:59pm
It's been a while since I'd used it but I went out to start the tractor and it makes a loud clunk noise (starter engaging) but doesn't turn over. I tried to hand crank it and I can't get it to budge. However if I take the spark plugs out, it'll turn over okay, but not as easily as it used to. No water or oil came out of plug holes.

Starter works fine when removed and I've got new battery cables.

Not sure what to do. I need to bush hog before winter.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:03pm
does the starter crank it over with the plugs out ?
Did you remove the ground screw on the starter and wire brush it for a good ground ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:05pm
OOPS, I missed the part about the hand crank does not work... that's not good... must be mechanical, not electrical........... pull the starter OFF and try to turn motor over by hand?
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PTO lever not engaged ?  Push the clutch pedal down and block it.. does motor turn easier by hand ?


Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Sep 2016 at 6:06pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:07pm
It does the same thing with the starter out when I try to hand crank so I don't think that's binding. I just don't understand how it could do this with no warning at all. I checked the oil and it's good as well.
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:17pm
Check the spring on the starter for a break or a screw loose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:22pm
It's getting dark out there. I'll take the starter off and inspect tomorrow, then I'll report back. Thanks,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:39pm
With the starter out take a pry bar and gently try to turn the flywheel backwards using the teeth on the flywheel if something is jammed it should back up and then when you take the crank and turn it SLOWLY a little bit again if it comes up solid if it does then you definitely have a problem
You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:16pm
Do you have any bolts in the holes where the cultivators bolt fast to the bell housing that the starter drive could hit.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Dick L Dick L wrote:

Do you have any bolts in the holes where the cultivators bolt fast to the bell housing that the starter drive could hit.      
True! When I mounted my belly sickle mower, 1 bolt was a thread or two too long and it wouldn't turn over either.
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what66 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote what66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:54pm
check the starter mine jammed in the fly wheel a few times .
Pull the starter out and put it back in if it lines up it should be ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:26pm
I pulled the starter and everything was intact. I removed the plugs and tried to use a pry bar to spin the flywheel in reverse but it won't budge. I tried to turn it over with the hand crank and it didn't budge either. I removed the bolt from the cultivators but it made no sifference.

I guess it's now beyond my skill level. Anyone in NC want to buy a non-running B?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:33pm
Do you have the clutch disengaged? Possibly got put in gear while it sat.
AaronSEIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:36pm
The clutch is disengaged and its out of gear. Pto is also disengaged. It won't budge now when trying to hand crank even with the plugs and starter out. I might just try to sell and get another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tcmtech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:17pm
Leave the plugs out and shoot some penetrating lube in the cylinders then put it high gear and drag it around the yard a few times in gear while dropping the clutch hard.   

If it won't break loose doing that there's no point in letting the next guy have an easy fix. LOL
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Leon n/c AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leon n/c AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:38pm
Starter may be jammed into flywheel try putting it in third gear and try rocking it backwards and see if that frees it up Had to do that numerous times with our B when the flywheel teeth or bendix teeth were worn. Leon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin Purdie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:57pm
What part of NC are you in.
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I'm near Monroe, which is about 30 minutes east of Charlotte. About 2.5 from Fayetteville.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:12pm
I thought you had said it would turn with the plugs out. My mistake! I would do the oil in the plugs for a while. I would guess you have rings rusted to the cylinders. If it didn't get water down the exhaust it should not take long with oil in the cylinders to break down the rust.  Some say a 50%/50% mix of ATF and acetone works well. Probly any penetrating oil would work as well.  Personally when I was able I would tear it down in a New York minute to see what was going on.  Now I would make a trip or two around it with my walker then go back in the house, get in my lift chair and dream about what I should do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:13pm
I'll try to drag it around and pop the clutch tomorrow. I hope it'll work! Thanks for the advice.

It would turn over with the plugs out yesterday! But it wouldn't today. I think it's possessed!

Edited by Syslogv4 - 30 Sep 2016 at 7:14pm
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:15pm
Im guessing the governor / weights exploded.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:17pm
Dragging it around and popping the clutch is a good way to bust things up permanently.
-
Pull the valve cover for inspection...
Then pull the governor out for inspection.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:22pm
Is there some sort of "how to" guide somewhere for the governor? I've done valve covers before but not governors. I'll hold off on dragging it around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:46pm
A stuck valve can keep it from turning over as well. Normally if you could turn it over by hand with a stuck valve it will then stick open and keep turning over. Since you said it turned over hard I go back to the rust on the rings. It still wouldn't hurt to remove the valve cover and make each valve push down open by hand and see them come back up. Not many other things can go wrong setting other than rings and valves.  If it was in the bottom end you should have heard something going on before you shut it off the last time.

If you do find a valve that takes a lot to push it down put oil on the stem and keep working up and down until it frees up. If you do have dry  stiff working valves and no rust you need to find out why you are not getting ample oil to the rocker arms.  If it is dry you would need to remove the rocker arm stud at the back to make sure it has the groove in the stud.  One of the biggest cause of dry rocker arm/valve stems is when the stud with the groove is put in the wrong place. Just information in case, while I am thinking about it. I am not nailing your problem. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pushing down hard is a relative term. Should have said (pry down hard) Valve springs are hard to compress by hand by them selves.


Edited by Dick L - 01 Oct 2016 at 6:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 8:25pm
Forcing a stuck engine to turn when the sticking is the piston  is almost guaranteed to bend that connecting rod in its weakest direction that then makes the piston and rod bearing bind more and soon that rod will break and the remains often makes a new crankcase inspection hole in the block or the oil pan.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 8:51pm
I think checking the governor weights id a very good idea. They can break and fall between cam and crank. So far I wouldn't jump the gun and get rid of it. Sometimes a flywheel bolt will break and wedge between the flywheel and block locking them up. And as others have emphasized, DON'T PULL IT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 11:33pm
Ok see if iam reading this correctly your very first post says it turns over with the plugs out by hand but it's stiff is that correct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 6:22am
It did turn over very stiff with the plugs out but now won't turn over at all. The change was over 24 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:56am
If you haven't already done it, put some sea foam in each spark plug hole and let're set for a day or two. Then with you're pry bar start working it back and forth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:56am
Update!

I removed the governor and inspected it, weights and teeth are good.

I sprayed penetrating lubricant in the cylinders last night and again this morning. I tried the hand crank again and after a little force, it's now turning over again and it's much easier. I guess water got in there and rusted. Now what do I do from here?

Edited by Syslogv4 - 01 Oct 2016 at 9:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:18am
Put everything back together and run it. It will be fine.
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