Can you patch a hole in a motor block were a rod

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   My question is can I weld a patch over a hole in a block were a rod went through? If so how should I do this. It's on a 301 motor in a Allis 7020? 

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acben20 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: waseca Points: 990	Post Options Post Reply Quote acben20 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Can you patch a hole in a motor block were a rod Posted: 14 Sep 2012 at 11:18pm
	My question is can I weld a patch over a hole in a block were a rod went through? If so how should I do this. It's on a 301 motor in a Allis 7020?

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Nathan (SD) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Day County SD Points: 1260	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nathan (SD) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 12:35am
	Usually the metal around the hole is stretched badly. If the hole is near the bottom of the cylinder liner, the o-rings will probably let coolant by. If your hole is down near the oil pan your odds might be better. We welded a hole in a Deutz oil cooled engine block at work that is still going. It can be done but every hole needs a serious in-depth study cuz they are all different.

dave63 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Location: Lineboro Md Points: 2382	Post Options Post Reply Quote dave63 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 6:36am
	Dad welded a Combine 301 block many years ago. He spent alot of time squaring up the hole and fitting a patch then he used nickle rod and he would weld a few 1/4" long beads. then let it alone so it could cool and little by little it worked.
	The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend?

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4912	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 9:19am
	sometimes easier to bolt a patch on. Drill and tap the block, make plate fit nice and snug, then silicone the plate on. Not my first choice in repairs, but can be effective.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

DaveKamp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5754	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveKamp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 9:52am
	Frequently, welding and patches are applied due to frozen blocks, and many cases, internal fractures are elsewhere. I recently swapped an engine out of my WD, because the original motor had been frozen and patched. As others noted, there was a fracture at the base of the liner, and as a result, the liner would shift, and not seal at the top or bottom. An AWOL rod punching a hole through may look pretty traumatic, but not be as deep as a frozen engine, so patching it (either welding, or a mechanical patch as suggested) may be alright. Just clean the block up and inspect it thoroughly first. Keep in mind that if you opt to start with a mechanical patch (plate with bolts and sealant), you can always come back and weld a patch in later.
	Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.

TimNearFortWorth Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Points: 2014	Post Options Post Reply Quote TimNearFortWorth Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 10:09am
	I have seen a number done successfully over the years including many on 1930's Wakeshas (spelling) owned by Shell Oil off the "avenue" in Ventura, CA. I spent some time with the old boy Shell contracted to keep those old pumping units running and he claimed there was never one he could not fix, but they were slow rpm units. He would drill a small hole at each end and take all day welding it up. Neatest one I ever saw performed was a freeze crack here in Texas and it ran 7-8" up the side of the block diagonally. Fella carefully vee ground it with a Dremmel, cleaned it with acetone and used JB Weld applied with a putty knife. Neat trick was he dabbed the JB while it was still soft, with a clean red shop rag and you could not tell where the patch was done.

gary Kansas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote gary Kansas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2012 at 2:49pm
	you could think of metal locking it back together. It is use most of the time in repairing the frames of large bore engines in power plants. It is cold repair useing special threaded locks. If you need i can help you in touch with the shops that do this. It is around 100.00 pre inch. It could be cheaper to find a good used block. Gary

Mrgoodwrench Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Location: CHICORA PA Points: 2087	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mrgoodwrench Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 2012 at 10:18am
	look at the classified forum back a few pages there is a guy with a compleete 190xt engine that blew a sleeve for 350 and a bare 301 block for 100
	There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11791	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 7:14am
	Depends on the crack or damage. I've repaired a few gas as well as diesel blocks with JB Weld with great success. As with anything, its the prep that's super important. Cracks I usually grind out (V cut) and work the JB Weld in. Wait a couple days, and sand it with 80 grit paper, then a finer sandpaper for a finish job. Paint over the repair, and ya can't even see it. Holes are a different story. Its important, as mentioned where the hole is located in the block. If its around a water or oil galley, it would be a tough one to fix because of other possible damage inside the block. If its in the side of the block near or just above the oil pan rail, the repair can be successful to repair sometimes. HTH Steve@B&B

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41572	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 10:50am
	If your patching a large hope and not a crack you need to inspect area in webs also of crank bearings , damage may be hidden in the structure of the block as well as the hole. The hole itself is only part of the structural failure. Yes the hole can be welded but finding donor metal to weld into hole and then a welding process to allow a no stress repair to be completed is going to be a time consuming process also
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

mlpankey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Vols country Points: 4580	Post Options Post Reply Quote mlpankey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 5:31pm
	Belzona supermetal in a patch like sbown on their website on either the ocean liner or the semi truck you pck wich one inpresses you the most.

Clay Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 9323	Post Options Post Reply Quote Clay Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 12:54am
	Coke is 100% correct. A thouough inspection is required to insure structural soundness before attempting the repair. I have seen and even performed holed block repairs with Belzona Super Metal. The stuff is darn near magic..

David Maddux Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Points: 2524	Post Options Post Reply Quote David Maddux Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 5:02am
	I just patched a hole in a block on a garden tractor engine. A Kohler 18 horse. It had a rod let go. I made a tin patch then JB weld it on the outside, then rubbed the JB into the edges of the inside. We will see how that works. Dave.

DiyDave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51674	Post Options Post Reply Quote DiyDave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 5:06am
	I had a JD 430 (similar to an m or mt) that had a crack running up the left side of the motor, had a friend, at a machine shop bring his magnaflux unit, and black light out and magnafluxed where the crack ended. It ended just below the water jacket. I then drilled a hole, at each end and 1 in the middle, and threaded the holes to 5/16" fine thread, and inserted bolts. Crack never moved up any further. I applied jb weld to the rest of the crack, and it never leaked.

ac-mike Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Points: 268	Post Options Post Reply Quote ac-mike Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 7:11am
	It is not worth the risk, put your money and energy towards another block.

TREVMAN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Regina,Sask,Can Points: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote TREVMAN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 9:14pm
	AC tractors use the engine as a structural member, tying the rear end to the front. Internationals are the same, Oliver used a heavy cast "tub" that took the load, the engine sits in that. With some deflection, I just couldnt see a patch holding. I hate to say it, but I think youd be better off doing the work to change blocks for a good one. May as well sleeve, ring, bearing, and I think Id be changing ALL the rods and fasteners for new ones. If one popped, there is likely more ready to go. Just mho, Trev.