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desertjoe 
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 Topic: Modifications to my 16' trailer,,,,,
Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 11:00pm |
I am seeing more and more of 16' trailers these days with a 20" to 24" extension to the back end the extension was installed with a downward angle of about 31°,,,, #1 This adds 20" to floor length,,, #2 Vehicles are far easier to load,,, #3 ramps length can be half as long, (old people will like this),,, Comments?
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DiyDave
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 4:33am |
And because the rear end is low, you get a 2 track road grader, when you buy the trailer, for free... 
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desertjoe
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 7:16am |
AW Chit,,DIY,,,and here I thought all those New Design trailers were actually "New Design Trailers" but now you telling us they are in fact ,,,,,"Road Graders",,,?? Who knew,,,??,,,,
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Dave H
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 8:34am |
them are called dove tails here
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 8:41am |
i bought one about 10 years ago... YES, called a 18 ft dove tail.....Does work out well for loading vehicles... Mine has two 5K axles and rated for 10K total weight.. this is mine that i just replace the smashed fenders and repainted..
Edited by steve(ill) - 10 Dec 2024 at 8:46am
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:08am |
If YOU modify your trailer for length , you'll also have to remove,relocate and weld on the spring mounts back on. Be 100% SURE to get them all lined up within 1/16" of square and true, that way it'll tow GREAT !
Normally tandem axles are 1/2 way of the deck, so 16' deck, center of axles is 8' from either end. When you add ,say 2', of 'dove tail' or 'beaver tail' to a 16' trailer, you need to move axles back to 9' , the new 'center'.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 8:53pm |
Hey Jay I have seen several trailers like the one Steve just posted that have more trailer floor in front of the springs than evenly spaced,,,fact is,,,I followed one this PM trying to flag it down to get a pic,,,,the closer I got ,,,,the faster she drove,,,,,,,,!!!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 9:41pm |
"MOST" trailer designers use a specific formula...
ONE formula is .. for a 18 ft trailer deck, take half of that is 9 ft to the CENTER... then move the axles back 1 inch for every foot of trailer length ( so move back 18 inches)... so the PIVOT between the two axles would be 10.5 ft from the front of the deck .. and 7.5 ft from the rear..
The SECOND formula is... for a 18 ft deck , and about 4 ft of tongue, the TOTAL length from the BALL to the rear is "about " 22 ft ...... put the pivot between the two axles at 2/3 from the BALL... or 1/3 from the BACK of the DECK... which would be 1/3 x 22 or 7.3 ft
so using formulat 1 you put the axles 7 ft 6 inchs from the REAR...using formula 2 you put the axles 7 ft 4 inches from the REAR ..... this is the PIVOT PIN between the front and rear axles springs..
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 9:48pm |
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normally the reason for going to a 18 ft trailer instead of a 16 ft is to INCREASE THE LOAD...... I had a 16 ft trailer rated for 8000#.... i SOLD IT and bought a 18 ft with 6 bolt rims and a rating of 10000# ...... something to consider... I acutally BOUGHT the 16 ft for $1450. and sold it 15 years later for $1750... But the 18ft cost was around $3000. ... that was 10 years ago..
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:00pm |
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I don't have my 4 wheel trailer in front of me, but here's how the axles are located (approximately) by my design. A 12 ft bed. A 4 ft tongue. The rear axle center is 3 ft from the rear of the end of the bed. The front axle is 3 ft C to C ahead of the rear axle. So, essentially my front axle center is very close to dead center on a 12 ft long trailer. This is so I can drive my tractors nose first on the trailer, place the rear wheel center about 12 inches ahead of the rear axle center and have great balance and tongue weight. Been like this for 27 years. If it was a regular run-of-the-mill 16 ft trailer I would have the front wheels of the tractor nearly all the way to the front to get it balanced, wasting 4 feet of the tail of the 16 ft bed.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:08pm |
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so Dr... your PIVOT POINT between the two axles would be 4.5 ft from the REAR.. Using the formula i listed it would be half of 12 ft ( trailer length) .. divided by 2 is 6ft... then move BACK 1 inch for each foot of trailer lenght .. so 12 more inches... so that would be 5 ft ...... your 4.5 ft gives you a little EXTRA tongue weight as you said..
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DMiller
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 2:35am |
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The concern of building a Equally spaced trailer floor to axles was noted, Tongue Weight. Lack thereof or placed too far rearward makes the towed unit unacceptably unstable. Those types of trailer tend to wag the tail of the dog as we would state in garages. They wiggle all the time while being pulled empty or worse loaded tugging at the towed vehicle.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 6:31am |
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Like I say, mine is specifically built for hauling 5500 lbs (or less) farm tractors nose first. My Allis NF farm tractors usually weigh 2/3 on the rear axle(s) and 1/3 on the front wheels. So, generally my front nose weight is about 1800 lbs max. Front wheels center are 18 inches to 24 inches (approx) behind the front end of the floor. Remember, I don't have the trailer here at home where I can be more accurate. EDIT: If I had 5K axles instead of 3.5K axles, I could actually haul a 180 or 185 (6700 lbs no fluid or Xtra weights) tractor on that same 12 ft bed trailer. The front wheels would be 100% forward touching the front end of the trailer bed. I have thought about changing axles or simply building a new trailer, but Biden-Flation discourages that.
Edited by DrAllis - 11 Dec 2024 at 7:50am
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 7:14am |
hmm, one concern about 'just adding 2 feet' is the extra additional weight of material to join the extra 2 feet of frame and decking to the existing trailer. probably need 1' overlap for the 'fish plates', and do 'something' about new ramp supports ?
It might be better to just buy an 18' trailer than modify the 16' one ?
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desertjoe
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 8:00pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
i bought one about 10 years ago... YES, called a 18 ft dove tail.....Does work out well for loading vehicles... Mine has two 5K axles and rated for 10K total weight.. this is mine that i just replace the smashed fenders and repainted..
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Hey Steve,,,are my eyes playing tricks on me or are the axles on your trailer set way farther back than close to center of trailer,,,:??
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 8:24pm |
I think its just the camera angle Joe... Here is a side photo from 10 years ago when it was new...
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 10:04pm |
My 16ft car hauler has a 2ft dovetail. Yes, easy to load vehicles on, and it gets easier- leave it unhitched, chock the tires. Use ramps with no support legs (flat). Drive a car on, the hitch tilts up, car comes up the dovetail, then back tires on, then the nose of trailer comes down, and car is on.
There's no reason to move the axles when adding a 2ft dovetail. The 16ft deck is a 16ft deck. The dovetail won't normally carry any additional weight, the center of gravity of the load is still located in perspective of a 16ft trailer deck. Weight of that dovetail extension is insignificant in comparison to the loaded 16ft trailer. You'll have a lighter tongue weight when empty, but if you're running empty, it won't matter.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 Dec 2024 at 10:23pm |
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that better be a REALLY REALLY REALLY small car if you are driving up a trailer and the ramps are not supported and the front of the trailer is not connected to the truck.... You can put that ball hitch 6 ft in the air without blocks or jacks on the rear of the trailer or ramps.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 6:59am |
Yes, the hitch ball rises anywhere from 4-6 feet. A 16ft trailer doesn't accept a very big car... a 1976 Buick Electra 255 sedan with 455 is about the biggest I've ever put on, and the doors wouldn't clear the trailer fenders, so I had to climb out the window. When allowing it to tilt, there's much lower likelyhood of high-centering a low-clearance vehicle when crossing the apex, and if the car is unable to climb on it's own, it's much easier to push or winch on. Once the front wheels reach the centerline between axles, the nose comes back down slowly, because it is lifting the rear wheels and ramps UP. It is, in effect, exactly the same as a tilt-loading trailer.
Wife and I just put a 2007 Honda CR-V on mine two nights ago... and while one would expect it to be 'small', it only had about an inch and a half on one side, and three inches on the other. Sure seemed silly that it was that close, in comparison to the Buick... hard to believe it, the CRV is barely 1000lbs lighter.
Edited by DaveKamp - 12 Dec 2024 at 7:04am
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 7:23am |
That IS a nice trailer,,Steve,,guess the angle of the pic makes it look that way,,,BUT,,,,BUT,,I HAVE seen trailers with the majority of trailer floor mostly to the front of axles, and wondered why they were built that way,,,? I was following one here Sunday to get a pic but that lady was scaired of that Dude following her had something else on his mind,,,,?? Never did catch her,,,,!
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mdm1
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 7:44am |
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Steve I also have a Hull 16ft 10,000 lbs trailer but no dovetail. I do have bobcat ramps though. Really nice trailers.
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WF owner
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 7:46am |
For most of us, especially those considering a dovetail (or beaver tail as most call it in my neck of the woods), hauling tractors is the main reason we have trailers. Axle placement isn't as critical as it would be for those hauling other things. As DrAllis said, you can simply move the tractor forward more for more tongue weight.
If you are buying a trailer to haul a fixed load (like hay or wood), axle placement becomes more important. As DMiller said, axle placement is most important to stop a trailer from swaying when towing at highway speeds. Enough tongue weight is important, or you will be "white knuckling" when towing.
A little off topic here, but I have been towing tractors on trailers for over 50 years. I much prefer to back tractors on a trailer, then to drive it on, if possible (if I'm loading narrow front tractors side by side to get more tractors on, it isn't possible). Most of my experience is with deck-over trailers. When I am unloading, I have about 28' of height to deal with. It's a heck of a lot safer and easier to drive off (especially if it's wet) than to back off, when gravity is working against you.
Even when I load my zero-turn mower on my utility trailer, I prefer backing on and driving off.
Edited by WF owner - 12 Dec 2024 at 7:49am
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desertjoe
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 7:47am |
DaveKamp wrote:
My 16ft car hauler has a 2ft dovetail. Yes, easy to load vehicles on, and it gets easier- leave it unhitched, chock the tires. Use ramps with no support legs (flat). Drive a car on, the hitch tilts up, car comes up the dovetail, then back tires on, then the nose of trailer comes down, and car is on.
There's no reason to move the axles when adding a 2ft dovetail. The 16ft deck is a 16ft deck. The dovetail won't normally carry any additional weight, the center of gravity of the load is still located in perspective of a 16ft trailer deck. Weight of that dovetail extension is insignificant in comparison to the loaded 16ft trailer. You'll have a lighter tongue weight when empty, but if you're running empty, it won't matter.
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Well,,Dave Kamp,, That right there was my train of thought,,since the dove tail will not carry any significant weight while loaded. I have a small scale to determine tongue weight by moving vehicle back & forth for best affect. I believe the Dove Tail addition was invented for old people that have to winch on a vehicle (by hand ) by themselves,,,,the Dove tail does that for them,,,,  ps; I ain't as brave as you in loadin one while unlatched down tho,,,
PSS; I have looked at several youtube videos and to a one,,none have mentioned "HOW MUCH" are the dove tails lowered, SO I did stop and measure 2 that I caught up with and one was 4 1/2" the other was 4",,,?
Edited by desertjoe - 12 Dec 2024 at 7:51am
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DanWi
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 8:58am |
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I have thought alot of trailers seem to have the axles back farther. I have a homebuilt 20ft deckover that we use for everything around the farm from hay bales to small tractors skid steers cars trucks lumber and 20 ft lengths of steel. The axles are only set less thena foot back from the center of the deck. But the front is heavier with the hitch. When I hang the ramps on the back end one person can lift the hitch. It pulls good going down the road even at 70mph. With being 20 ft long anything you load on it you just make sure you have a little more weight to the front. It does help that we pull it with a 1ton dually crew cab. Being bumper hitch with the axles that far forward it follows good on turns when you get in tighter spots. Like others have just said loading the skid steer I back on.
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DanWi
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 9:16am |
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I think the dovetail is good for cars, tractors with mounted implements with low ground clearance and riding lawn mowers.
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Scott B
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 12:35pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
that better be a REALLY REALLY REALLY small car if you are driving up a trailer and the ramps are not supported and the front of the trailer is not connected to the truck.... You can put that ball hitch 6 ft in the air without blocks or jacks on the rear of the trailer or ramps. |
i inadvertently used my 2" ball on my 2 5/16 ball 20' tandem trailer. Hauled my d17. She loaded fine but shot off the ball when i unloaded! Had to find a new set of undershorts afterward 
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 12 Dec 2024 at 6:24pm |
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What ya gettin ready to haul Joe?
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