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AC WD45 
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Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Location: Mid Michigan
Points: 2059
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 Topic: Rewiring shop. Where to start?
Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:02pm |
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Let be start by saying I am not an expert in anything, but I am a stubborn DIY'er, and I take the time to learn as much as I can about something before I undertake a project, especially when saftey is a concern.
My intentions here are to rewire my shop myself, have everything inspected by a certified electrician before hooking it up to power, and having that electrician make the final connection. That said, let's get to the project at hand.
Currently my garage runs 3 wall outlets and an array of fluorescent shop lights on a single 20a breaker in my basement.
I want to upgrade to a pannel in the shop. Lights on seperate breaker
6 wall outlets split between 2 30a breakers, and I need atleast one 100a 220v outlet.
Where do I even begin? I assume I will need at minimum:
-200a panel
- (2)20a, (2),30a and (1)100a breakers
-wire (what size?)
-3 additional wall outlets.
- wire nuts, possibly a few Junction boxes?
-romex staples
I'm sure I'm missing things. Any tips and tricks are appreciated.
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German Shepherd dad
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1951 Allis Chalmers WD
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81819
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:38pm |
20 amps is 12 gauge romex... 30 amps is 10 gauge romex... WHAT are you going to run on a 100 amp breaker ???
if you leave your PRESENT system in service - you can use the plugs and lights while you work....
since your PRESENT system is pretty basic, you might just FORGET using any part of it. Buy electrical boxes for the 20 amp and 30 amp circuits.. Buy the plugs and wire. run wire from 1 to 2 to 3 and back to the area where you want the Breaker Panel... You can mount the panel and run the wire into it and not terminate... You will need a POWER WIRE from somewhere that FEEDS the NEW BREAKER BOX... Do you have 100 / or 200 amp supply available ? You will probably want to run 4 wires ( hot- hot - neutral - ground) from the OLD SUPPLY to the NEW breaker box.. 100 amps would be a #2 size wire... ( you dont add all the 20 amp and 30 amps plugs together + 100 amp 220v to get 200 amps TOTAL --- your NEVER going to pull that much)..
You might want to mount the Breaker box, and run all the 120v wires to the plugs and lights, then call the Electrican to connect up to the FEED POWER... do the 220v after.
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Dec 2024 at 8:45pm
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:41pm |
here are the wire sizes for given amp draw..
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:04pm |
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As an example, our 45 year old house has a MAIN BREAKER BOX of 100 amps ( that was standard back then .. wish it was a little larger) .. Furnace, stove and water heater are propane which helps.. We have microwave, frig, cloths dryer, dish washer , light, etc all in the MAIN BOX... I run a 60 amp wire to the GARAGE Breaker box... out there i have a 50 amp breaker for the arc welder , 30 amp 220v for the lathe / table saw / wire feed welder , 4 - 30 amp 120v plugs , 8 - 20 amps 12v plugs , and several lights..... 60 amps is PLENTY for me... Welder on 50 amp breaker might pull 40 amps out of the 60 amp supply.. still got 20 amps for lights / bench grinder / etc... I cant run 4 pieces of equip all at THE SAME TIME so i cant pull over 60 amps total in the garage..
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:13pm |
I'd start with a 100 amp 'basic house panel/breaker 'kit' form say Home depot. Actually .I've done this 3 -4 times. The 'kit' has the box, main 100a breaker and all the breakers you need to wire a basic house. Yes, 'overkill' for your shop... UNTIL.. you see that having LOTS of space and breakers gives you 'options'. The kitchen upgrade we did in 2000, has such a panel and 21 of the 24 breaker spots is USED !!! I thought I'd use 10-12 spots but the project 'grew' like wine fridge, dishwasher, OTC microwave, extra lighting(never used but... it's there ). Nice thing is if you split up lighting onto several breakers, you can add new stuff or move things around and NOT be in the dark. My garage/ workshop has 20 out of 24 spots filled. Arcwelder and air compressor are both 240 and either can be plugged into each others receptacle. Overhead lights (LEDs ) are grouped 2 per breaker, plugged into receptacles. Allows me to mount them where I want, easily moved when I change the work tables around. Extra spots allows for new circuits to be added,say when you get a drill press or furnace. I double boxed every bench location. With FOUR positions , I can plug in drill, trouble light AND battery charger as well as the X3 magnifier ....
Yes the upfront cost is there.... box full of breakers and the main feed cable BUT later additions will cost peanuts !
I did the same for neighbour who had FOUR, 15 amp runs to her garage. Replace with new panel, 12 breakers. NOW the garagedoor opener doesn't pop the overhead lights out.
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:17pm |
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How big is the MAIN BREAKER BOX (AMPS) ? .... Do you have a double spot to put a 100 amp breaker in to feed the GARAGE ? Again, WHY do you think you need a 100 amp 220 breaker in the garage ?
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Dec 2024 at 9:34pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 4:25am |
I'll break with the direction this thread is going and say, find the "friendly electrician" first... 
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 5:33am |
NO, HE'D BE SECOND
1ST is make A PLAN ! Sit down , draw a sketch of shop, layout where plugs and lights are needed.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 5:50am |
I second Jay's response. Current Code will require a Second Service supply including a Meter Base to Just The Garage or IF can get the supply system company to do it change the Main Meter Base and transformer to a 1kv service drop then can run the second feeder triplex to the new second Service Box. Electrician will be your Enemy/Friend to get it done properly.
Our Home and Workshop are fed from a 1Kv Service drop to a major Disconnect Switch, from there One Meter supplies the Bus Bar to feed the House on one leg and the shop on a second, there is space for a Third that I have segregated to a 50a Plug in Breaker protected drop at the disconnect bus for a Generator Connection.
Edited by DMiller - 07 Dec 2024 at 5:53am
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Kenny L.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 7:57am |
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DMiller said ( Electrician will be your Enemy/Friend to get it done properly.) This is so true if he has to sign off on the whole job.
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Dave H
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 10:07am |
100A Breaker (whoah)
My service panel for the pole barn is 100A 
And if you are gonna get an electrician involved, I think it should be up front.
Edited by Dave H - 07 Dec 2024 at 10:08am
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 12:08am |
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House is 200 Amp , shop sub-fed from that with #2 Aluminum for 100 Amp to new panel - with meter socket to measure use (son was using shop for his skid loader attachment business) . His section of shop had another sub-panel fed with #6 wire on 60 Amp breaker
He had 3 welders in his section and a Phase converter to run 2 Bridgeport's , along with grinders , power hacksaws.
Only problem came when he was running his PARINAH press with 7.5 HP motor , draw from converter didn't allow welding as it would trip the 60 Amp feed.
REMEMBER a 220 V circuit at 100 Amp is - 100 AMP 120 V on each leg ... The draw on 220 V with parallel neutral is sized by breaker .
Unless your running heavy loads on a constant draw no need for 200 Amp panel
What is drawing a 100 Amp load at 220 V in constant use .
I have 3 - 60 Amp welding plugs in shop but use one at a time , phase converter on my Large lathe but that only draws 20 Amp , 10 - 4 plex outlet boxes 15 Amp , then 3 circuits on lighting
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 4:02am |
My own home is 200a service as second source off meter base, separated all rooms for Lighting as well outlets from lighting, Kitchen by itself has five circuits for wall outlets as now required by NEC. HVAC is Ground Source with a 7KV backup resistance heater bank, I really should look to adding a LP backup and eliminate that. Wash drier is Electric 220v on a 40a breaker, added a 50a breaker for the garage service panel on the house as built it After moved in, Separate Outlet breakers from lighting throughout that with four 20a circuits.
Shop is the first load off the Meter Base, again 200a service box, Well and one side of shop HVAC is on that, had lathe and mill supplies as separate sourced breakers both at 40a 220v, my Air Compressor is 220 s.ph. and is on a 40a breaker yet a 50a outlet, all four welder outlets are separate and on 50a breakers yet I can only use one at a time as only me to run them. Lighting and electrical outlets are separated, I feed a garden shed a parasite 120 service for two lamps and two outlets off the outlets in working/unheated side of shop. Have plenty of service to add more heat just have not. My barn in the valley has a 200a service box yet was purchased only as was handier than a 100a to achieve, is on its own meter. Has a well, 3 welder and a air compressor outlets, three sets of 120 outlets inside, three large switched 120v overhead lamps and outside wall outlet banks. Would rather have overkill than under capacity.
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AC WD45
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Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Location: Mid Michigan
Points: 2059
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Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 6:08pm |
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Hello everyone, and thanks for all of the responses and information. I have not been online in a while, as I have been very busy shifting gears from Tree moving season to snow plowing season. There is a lot to read and take in here, so I am going to read through everything before I respond to anyone. Thanks again!!!
Edited by AC WD45 - 16 Dec 2024 at 6:09pm
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German Shepherd dad
1957 Allis Chalmers WD45
#WD234847
1951 Allis Chalmers WD
#WD88193
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