| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Isaiah Jones 
Bronze Level
Joined: 18 May 2014
Location: Venedocia, Ohio
Points: 75
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Allis Chalmers D14 6v to 12v conversion
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 2:56pm |
|
Hi there everyone. I have 1958/9 D14 and I'm looking into what all is required to convert it over to 12v. Anyone know what I need to purchase and how I go about converting it over. Thank you.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22472
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 4:01pm |
hmm... does the starter have a steel band around it by the power stud ?
If so it IS a 12v starter !
or pull the starter out and count the pinion teeth. 9 teeth it's 12v, 10 teeth ,6 volt.
best to check anyway to confirm . I've had 4 d-14s, 3 were 6 volt, 1 was a true 12.
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81242
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 4:22pm |
A 6 volt starter will run on 12v.. just a little HARD on the engagement.. But there are THOUSANDS of old tractors doing this.... Starter dont care if its positive or negative ground, so make it NEG like every other truck / tractor built in the last 50 year.
You have a distributor and it has a 6 v coil. You should switch to a 12 v coil with "internal 3 ohm resistance".... and the NEG side of the coil goes to the distributor.
Your amp meter will read backward if you go to NEG ground.. just switch the wires.
Need to determine if you want to keep the OLD 6v Generator and add a 12v REGULATOR to push it to charge the battery... Or get a NEWER alternator with internal regulator and simplify the wires.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81242
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 4:31pm |
something like this.... Decide if you want an alternator. ( better idea)..... or use the old generator..
Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Sep 2024 at 4:33pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4666
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 8:46pm |
I have switched a few old tractors to 12 volts. One of the things I do is change the ammeter over to a volt meter.
With the factory 6 volt system, all the charging current goes through the ammeter. The ammeter wasn't designed to flow the amps at 12 volts that a modern alternator puts out.
I find the voltmeter safer and abetter to monitor the battery and charging system.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81242
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 8:54pm |
the reason for going to 12 v systems was with DOUBLE the voltage, you need HALF the amps to get the same power output... Now you could install a 100 amp alternator and it will still only put out 5 amps if that is what is needed.. Turn on the air cond, woofter radio and 20 flood lights and THEN you will need that alternator !!
Agree a voltmeter is easiler to monitor what is going INTO the battery as 14 v is obviously higher than 12 v on the gauge.. and the wire size is minimal compared to the amp meter which is carrying FULL CURRENT... Its hard to tell 0- 5 amps on a gauge and really does not tell you exactly what is going on with the battery.... but all of my OLD tractors still have amp gauges... just never changed.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8290
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Sep 2024 at 9:20pm |
Yes i agree on the volt meter too. I like the Denso (small type) alternator. They fit nice. Probably need a new bracket to line up the alternator. Also you can use a diode between the alternator and the battery to keep it from draining the battery. Basically your making a custom electrical system. Not a bad thing and the tractor will start much better. I need to do this to our D14 also! Keep us posted with pictures! Regards, Chris and Cheryl
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Phil48ACWC
Silver Level
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Location: Vermont
Points: 288
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Sep 2024 at 6:12am |
|
I converted my WC to 12V 25 years ago. No regrets. In the beginning, I left a 60 Amp Ammeter in place and I had to boost a dead battery in a car. I have a 100 Amp alternator in my WC and when boosting the car with the WC running, the alternator put out the full 100 amps and fried the 60 Amp Ammeter. I now have a Digital Volt meter in place for the last 24 years. No problems. So ya, voltmeter is the way to go.
Edited by Phil48ACWC - 19 Sep 2024 at 6:24am
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22472
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Sep 2024 at 6:32am |
I've had 4 D-14s, replaced all the gennys with 'free to me' Delco CS130 series alternators, never had an ammeter fry, and Murphy always seems to be close by. A voltmeter isn't the same as an ammeter. It can read 'good / green / 14' and you can still have a bad battery. An ammeter shows charge/discharge...actual current flow.
Several decades ago Detroit 'cheaped out', went to voltmeters as they are a LOT cheaper to make and install, and the 'world' followed their lead.
I suspect Phil's meter fried because his tractor battery had very low capacity (CCA) so couldn't supply the amps needed for the boost.
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 783
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Sep 2024 at 7:34am |
 Sugarmaker wrote:
...Also you can use a diode between the alternator and the battery to keep it from draining the battery...Regards, Chris and Cheryl |
This will work of course but it also adds an additional 'diode drop' of approximately 0.7 Volts which results in heat losses; a diode rated for at least 20 volts and 50 amps (more is better) would be needed. Since alternators already have the necessary diodes installed this is redundant.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81242
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Sep 2024 at 9:03am |
there needs to be a slight voltage drop between the two small spade terminals 1 and 2 on most alternators.. to make them charge........ The drawing shows an "idiot light"... this can also be a RESISTOR.. or even a DIODE........
As Les said, dont put a diode in the BIG LINE ( main charge line to battery )
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11816
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Sep 2024 at 12:06pm |
I offer a 6-12V conversion kit for the "D" series Tractors if interested. Check out our website. BTW, if you decide to go 12V, have the Starter changed to 12 as well. Running 12 volts through 6V field coils makes the Starter violent which leads to bent drives, cracked or broken nose cones, or flywheel/ring gear damage. If you don't want to split the Tractor to fix the ring gear, do it right! Flip the Starter to 12.
Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com
Edited by Steve in NJ - 20 Sep 2024 at 12:10pm
|
|
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
|
|
Isaiah Jones
Bronze Level
Joined: 18 May 2014
Location: Venedocia, Ohio
Points: 75
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Sep 2024 at 5:07pm |
|
Hi Steve. Was I wondering which of your kits I need for this tractor? And what all is in your kit? What else do I need to get to do this conversion project. Thank you for your help everyone.
|
|
AC720Man
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
Points: 4924
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Sep 2024 at 6:32pm |
|
What’s your serial number? Sure way to know what year it is. Look up tractor data Allis Chalmers D14 through google. I recently ran into this on my new to me one owner D14. A light rubbing of steel wool on the generator tag to remove the dull black paint proved it was a 12v generator. 19001 is when the change to 12V happened. Thanks Alvin for that piece of information that you gave me last week.
Edited by AC720Man - 29 Sep 2024 at 6:36pm
|
|
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
|
|
Isaiah Jones
Bronze Level
Joined: 18 May 2014
Location: Venedocia, Ohio
Points: 75
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 5:38pm |
|
Serial number is 14334. So a late 1958.
|
|
darrel in ND
Orange Level
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8634
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Oct 2024 at 5:49am |
|
I finally got everything up to snuff on my six volt D14, heavy battery cables, good clean connections, good battery, rebuilt starter with new solenoid, and she spins over as good as it will ever need to.
Darrel
|
|
