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Engine rebuild

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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Engine rebuild
    Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 8:17am
I have a do you 17 going to end up rebuilding motor wondering how I could get to maybe 70 hp is that something that is capable of being done on pump gas? Feel free to give me any tips anyone might have
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 9:14am
70 PTO HP ??    4 1/8" overbore sleeves and pistons with 8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression (that's the secret) with your camshaft reground to a "175" tractor grind and a D-19 carb made to fit the engine will get you right there at 1800 RPM rated load on 87 octane gas.  My reasoning?? A stock A-C 175 gas tractor made 61 HP at the PTO with 4 inch bore, 8.25 to 1 compression, better camshaft grind and a smaller carburetor, while having a 12 GPM hydraulic pump loading the engine.   1/8" extra bore +4 HP.   No 12 GPM hyd pump +3 or 4 HP. Larger D-19 carb another +3 or maybe 4 HP.  Good luck !!!
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 11:32am
Thanks be reading on stuff here that goes back 20 years just signed up day ago. I thought going with the 4 1/8 would actually drop compression figured that would be the compression ratio I would be looking for I see they make an LP kit or high octane kit with those parameters I think forgot to say it was a series 3. S# 701 12
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 11:33am
And yes, 70 at the PTO would be nice. Forgot to say that.
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 11:38am
Forgot to say, is it worth porting and polishing head
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 12:12pm
GOING TO THE TYPICAL 4 1/8" DOES INDEED DROP COMPRESSION AS A RULE !!! Because these aftermarket venders don't understand. So, it's up to you to KNOW what you are getting !!   I think there are 4 1/8" flat tops that may meet this compression number. Porting ?? I don't do that on a farm tractor. You can shorten the intake guides on the bottom 1/2" to easily open things up.
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 12:18pm
Thanks for your input in time
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 12:18pm
And time
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 2:05pm
Any place that you recommend dealing with wind buying rebuild kits
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560Dennis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 560Dennis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 7:44am
nos , least expensive 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 8:01am
Originally posted by 560Dennis 560Dennis wrote:

nos , least expensive 

Dennis, I think that would be hard to harness in a tractor pull! If you 'hit the button' early it would probably blow up before the end. If you waited until close to the end, probably just spin-out in spectacular fashion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 8:15am
Arias Custom Pistons in CA will make you a set of pistons and work with you to ensure you get what you want. Not cost prohibitive in my opinion. They have many blanks to machine to your specifications and if you send them a good usable piston to start from, give them correct information of your desires, you will get what you need.

I had them make a set of pistons for one of my V8 Mack engines and they look almost duplicates of the originals. Only second machining operations I needed was to open up the pin bores as they could only do 2.00" where I needed 2.250" if memory serves. My uncle did that operation and fitted the new pins.  
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 8:31am
I've used Ross Pistons over the years. Will make me whatever I want, and I always design the Power Crater piston bowl in the top. So, money not being a problem, source yourself four new 4 1/8" sleeves by themselves and have custom pistons made to your desired compression ratio to fit those new sleeves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 9:33am
Is that Ross racing pistons you’re talking then ? I see alot of people taking cam to berry cam in Minnesota for cam grinding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 9:47am
Putting D 19 carb on that involve some new connecting rods to be completed or not seeing that you’re talking about twisting it up to 1800 versus 1650 do I need different governor weights to accomplish that? And what is the difference between G block and W block I got a WD 45, which is supposedly the same block but does not look the same. 45 has a big plate on the casting behind distributor or a magneto or whatever you wanna call it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 10:16am
So I guess I got a couple other questions rear rims need to replace one center Rusted as well filled with fluid rusted out. I was considering putting Twheels on waiting for Michelin to get back to me seems to be hard to get any answers out of them I know they made them because when I went to go pick up this D 17 seen a couple tractors running around with them in Wisconsin. I know it won’t look proper. What other tractors have the same bolt pattern I don’t mind if they’re not adjustable. Thought I got a pretty good price though 400 bucks for this D 17 motor stuck guy down the road had a couple one diesel think the other one was a series 4 he was asking 3000 bucks for tractors, not running needing a bunch of parts so I think I did all right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 10:29am
I thought this started out as a thread about a D-17 tractor/D-17 engine ??  Now, you're describing a WC/WD block with a plate on the right side??? Are we talking tractor pulling here??? or do you want to use this engine to farm with ???   Your BEST engine build begins with a G-226/D-17 engine that has 3 inch diameter main bearings in it. The WC/WD/WD45 engine family has 2 1/2" diameter mains.  D-17 conn rods are fine, but the newer the engine is the better, as the forgings improved in the later engines. There are different governor weights and things to do to the governor without going over 2100 RPM high idle/no load.  D-19 carb requires mods to make it fit, YES.   Why don't you get the engine built and running with a D-17 carb and go from there. I loaned Berry Cams a brand new AC 175 camshaft to make a "pattern" from 30+ years ago. They should know how to do it, but I understand the people I dealt with aren't there any more.  EDIT:  If this engine is to be used as a"farming" engine, and used at the highest HP it can develop a good deal of the time, let it be known to you, it will not run as many hours of service life as a bone stock engine. It can't. You will be increasing the speed of wear on crankshaft main and rod bearings from the extra pressure from making HP. The more hours it spends making 70 HP the less hours it will run before needing bearings. Horsepower ain't for free!!!  If it is used far more hrs at a lesser HP output and occasionally high HP output, that is a good thing for longer life.

Edited by DrAllis - 26 Nov 2023 at 10:46am
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cwsac.1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 6:34pm
Yeah I know I need to stay on topic newbie no pulling tractor just gonna use it to bail hay mostly just for fun. Got a little obsessed with tractors the last couple months. poler would be fun maybe sometime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 6:48pm
So I’m basically looking for the horsepower to run a baler, hoping I would needn’t to run it wide open no I don’t know what Baler I will be using yet was hoping to run some small round baler like 30 bales.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 7:18pm
Balers are ran at 540 PTO speed/1650 RPM on the D-17 engine. Find yourself some  4 1/8" flat top piston/sleeve kit as I think someone has an 8.0 to 1 compression ratio offered. Do the camshaft grind if you want. Stick with stock carb for 1650 RPM so your governor action is acceptable. The 70 HP number was based upon 1800 loaded RPM. Can't do that with a baler at 1650 RPM. You don't need 70 HP for a baler size the weight of a D-17 can handle anyway.

Edited by DrAllis - 26 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2023 at 9:42pm
A stock D17 gas or diesel will handle a square baler with ease. My WD has no issue so expecting my D17D to handle it with ease next year. I can’t wait until hay season next year…I hope we have one after this years disaster year.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:00am
A D-17 will handle an average small baler, but I know a guy who has one of the newer Hesston inline small square balers and he pulls a 15 bale Kuhn accumulator. He says he needs at least 100 hp. on the baler. 
They make big windrows and run the baler near it's capacity. He says they can easily bale 2500 bales per day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:43am
I have High Compression Flattops in my D17 that I searched for a long time to find. They are in the 8 or higher compression range. Look for SK156 pistons, They will give you a few more HP. 
I assume you are talking about a Round baler?
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2023 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Charlie175 Charlie175 wrote:

I have High Compression Flattops in my D17 that I searched for a long time to find. They are in the 8 or higher compression range. Look for SK156 pistons, They will give you a few more HP. 
I assume you are talking about a Round baler?

Are you able to run regular gas with the flat top pistons?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 7:39am
Thanks sk# number yes round bales
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:48am
8.0 or 8.2 to 1 compression ratio will run on 87 octane gas, YES. Ignition timing should be retarded from 25 degrees BTDC down to 22 or 23 degrees BTDC as per an A-C bulletin 45 yrs ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:54am
is that a wd 4 inch stroke piston
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 8:58am
The one I found was 4 1/8 with that SKU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwsac.1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 9:05am
Good to know timing thanks knowI just need to get out it. Dang cold out though. let you know how it goes after I get all my measurements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2023 at 9:31am
what is the pin hight
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