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Ford 5.4 Engine ? |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Posted: 23 May 2020 at 7:00pm |
Would someone "in-the-know" be willing to tell me where the #2 and 4 cylinders are located (D/S-P/S) on this particular engine? Ended up at the local dealer and had bad coils on those cylinders plus the failure of a 12,000 mile old spark plug on # 4 . Thanks
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Roger Mn
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Preston Mn Points: 98 |
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looking at engine left bank is 1234 right bank is 5678
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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YEP...... they number from the radiator to the firewall, starting on the passenger side.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24021 |
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having put over 120,000 miles on two V10's I quickly learned to buy a cheap scanner and carry it and a spare coil, and the few tools, necessary, and can of compressed air to replace a coil along the road! saved my but a few times on long distance road trips!
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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HD6GTOM
Orange Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: MADISON CO IA Points: 6627 |
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Lou, my son found out the same thing with his 4.8 and 5.4's. The salvage lot is 2 miles south of his home. He would keep at least 2 in his glove box. I just hauled a pickup load of 5.4 to the scrap yard. They came from the car dealership I used to work for. I was storing them incase they needed a few parts. They told me to scrap them. I know ol shameless would a like to drive the pickup to the scrap yard.
Edited by HD6GTOM - 23 May 2020 at 10:43pm |
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AllisFreak MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Location: Minnesota Points: 1499 |
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"can of compressed air to replace a coil" ? I'm not understanding Lou.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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The motor has 8 individual coils... the spark plugs are countersunk 4 inches into the top of the head... The COIL has a plug wire 4 inches long that extends into the hole and sets on top of the spark plug.. When you remove a coil you are suppose to BLOW OUT THE HOLE around the plug to make sure there is not contamination ( dirt water) in the hole. The coil has a rubber face and seals at the top of the hole.
I had a 2001 F150 5.4 that ran 250K miles, then a tree jumped out in front of it and destroyed the front clip.... Sold that and bought a 2002 with 100K miles and drove it to 200K miles... Still running great.. Probably bought 6-8 coils for each truck. Sold it 2 years ago and bought a 2013 Dual Turbo 3.5L
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21463 |
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Ok, I have to ask... WHY do the coils fail ?? does anyone KNOW the real reason ? It seems to me the coil should be dang near bulletproof. |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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IMO, It's all about the $$$$$ . The price of the coil wasn't "out of line" to me, $68, but the dealers price of a plug was kind of out of line, $17
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24021 |
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OK Steve answered the compressed air question. To Jay's question, I'm not sure if it is the coil, or the boot. The original coils were a one piece affair, coil and boot assembly. Later on, I discovered individual pieces, coil and boot separately. I think, sometimes at least, it wasn't really the coil, but rather the boot. Because, like Steve says, the plug and boot resides in a well, and 'stuff' gets in, the well, around the boot, and holds moisture. I think the boot decays, gets electrically leaky and provides a lower resistance path to ground. The gap on the plugs is pretty wide, so a higher resistance. add to that the fact that the plugs had a bad habit of removing the threads from the aluminum head when the plug was removed, people (me) took the attitude, 'leave well enough alone' so the plug ran a 100,000 miles or more, so the gap was no doubt a bit wider than spec.
So, possibly not premature failure of the coil, per se, but it was far easier and less risky to replace the boot/coil assembly and be back on the road, instead of addressing the possible root cause. it fixed it and I was happy. I frankly was terrified of messing with those plugs, especially the back ones because I am round of belly and short of arms and legs and getting to those back four plugs, on my F350 4x4 was a real chore! especially on the right side. I am pretty sure neither the 1999 F250, or the 2000 F350 had plugs replaced for over 100k and both were running like new when the trucks rusted out from underneath me and was retired. If I was to have a complaint about ford trucks, it would be their sheet metal! You could hear them rusting as they left the factory! |
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24021 |
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IMO, It's all about the $$$$$ . The price of the coil wasn't "out of line" to me, $68, but the dealers price of a plug was kind of out of line, $17 [/QUOTE Yep, the iridium plug will cause heart flutters when the bill comes! but they will go 100K miles easy. the coils could be had for less than half of the dealer price from discount auto part stores.....and seemed to last longer than the OE I use Rock Auto on line, but there are others |
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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This particular dealers' policy was to install coils WITH a plug, no exceptions . I informed them that the plugs/ boots had less than 12,000 miles on them so they gave me some slack, claimed 1 of the plugs (out of the 2 problem cylinders) had no electrode
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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When you get a CODE like P0304 .......... it says MISSFIRE ON #4... Dont say if its the plug or the coil........ Like LOU said, its the coil 95% of the time... But the DEALER is not going to take a chance of having to do it twice, so they change the PLUG also.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21463 |
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so...followup question... does this ONLY happen with ALL the 5.4s ( all years ?) or just SOME of them, say before 20xx ? sound slike a very common failure, so what ( if anything) did Ford do to correct the problem ? curious... Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24021 |
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5.4/6.8, I don't have answers to the rest of your questions |
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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The started building the 5.4 motor in 1997 i believe... I had a 2001 and a 2002 .... in 2005 they modified the motor to be variable cam timing... that introduced additional problems... They built that motor till about 2012 i believe, about 15 year run...... Now they have a 5.0 V8 based on the motor from years ago, and a 3.5 V6 dual turbo motor.... they also sell a smaller V6 and a bigger displacement V8 if you need it, but the 5.0 and the 3.5 are their main units.
I have the 3.5 dual turbo V6... Turbos kick in at 1400 rpm, NOT high speed.. At 60 MPH you can get 20- 21 MPG... Stomp on the throttle and it runs like a scalded dog, pushing 400 HP..... Dont know the expected life.. Mine is "new" at 90K miles..... thought i would give the TURBO a try.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Steve, is the VCT related to the cam phasers ? My engine is an 05
Edited by FREEDGUY - 24 May 2020 at 7:00pm |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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YES... the VCT is variable cam timing.. There are two cams and two cam chaines, one for each bank.. The motor starts in a retarded position and as the rpm increases the CAM TIMING is advanced... That is done with a small hydraulic piston in a bore actuated by motor oil pressure.... that is called the PHASER. There is a screen that filters the oil as it goes into the piston bore.. OLD dirty oil can plug the screen... The PHASERs have also been known to STICK... The oil is turned ON and OFF by a small electric solenoid... and they have been known to fail..... if you get the PHASER code, problems can be any one of the above.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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fixer1958
Orange Level Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2435 |
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05 should be a 3 valve. Those are particularly fun if you don't change plugs on time and break them off in the head... If you guy's insist on driving Fords you need to get one of these. I call it belly surfing. Sure saves yer nards from getting torn off by the hood latch. Mines pretty close to the same thing. |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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FORD had spark plugs that were TWO PIECES crimped together in 2005- 2006... some would SNAP when you tried to get them out.... That problem was fixed by 2007... Once the plugs are CHANGED to the new style, your good to go.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Sadly, I thought my 5.4 issues were over after the "dealer bend-over", but the SAME issue showed up this afternoon on my way home from work . The dealer WILL be called first thing in the morning but I am somewhat sure the symptoms are my AMAZON PACKAGE DEAL PLUGS/BOOTS . If I get back into the dealer and there's more plugs blown off (12,000 miles ago), I will let you guys know where/where not to buy "package" deals . In hindsight, should the coils be replaced with the plugs/boots at tune-up time ?? Holy SH*T, that will make for a VERY expensive tune-up !!
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77708 |
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You should only use MOTORCRAFT plugs... they will last 100K miles... For some reason the 5.4 EATS anything else..
Coils are random.. I have had factory units last 60K miles and over 150K miles... I just kept a couple spares and replace with aftermarket when one failed.. 10 minute job... Some aftermarket have gone 30K... some last 80K... you never know.... MOTORCRAFT might be a little more quality coil, but they cost 2-3 x as much.. I do the plugs at 100K intervals... do the coils as needed.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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I replaced the plugs/boots with a Motorcraft brand combo kit that came off of Amazon.
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