CA engine running issue

Hey guys,

A little background on my stumping issue, I have posted before about it and have worked out most of the bugs... but i still have this continuing issue. (check my prior topics if you want more background, i'll brief it here)

1951 CA, willed to me from my grandpa and it sat for 6-7 years. As far as I know it ran when it was parked. The tractor has a 12v conversion with 12v generator, regulator and a 12 v coil.  After troubleshooting, it has gotten the following new parts; intake/exhaust manifold/gasket, plugs, cap, rotor,  wires, coil (correct ohms for this motor per the forums), points/condenser, carb (re manufactured), all fluids. I have also adjusted the valves, checked gas flow in carb, ran with gas cap off, ran it at night (checking for jumped spark), checked timing several times. I have also ran new wires from ignition to coil and solenoid.

When the tractor is started up, it runs fine. After running for 15-20 mins, it will randomly spit and sputter and hunt when at 3/4 - full throttle. If you back the throttle down it will correct itself. If it dies, the tractor will start right back up at idle, and run at 3/4 - full throttle, but never fails if the throttle is above half, it will spit sputter hunt and try to die. I do not believe its the coil because the tractor will fire right up after it dies and it doesn't seem to effect it when it dies. There does not appear to be any sediment in tank, carb was ok the last 3 times i pulled it apart. Checked flow, etc.

I thought i had it fixed after new points/condenser because I ran it this winter after replacing points/condenser and it did not spit, sputter, hunt/die. That was when the temp was 15-30 degrees F or so. It 65 here today, and was in the 50s and it did it again. The choke does not fix the sputter if pulled when dying. I even messed with the timing thinking it was too far advance, but no chance. I am in the process of getting a light to get it exact again. I did alot of it by ear, and got it pretty darn good before.

Any ideas? I checked the metal fuel line near the block it was somewhat warm but did not seem warm enough for vapor lock. I thought about ripping the distributor apart, but that wouldn't explain the temp issue. I am pretty mechanically inclined and have worked on a lot of things before, but this thing has me pulling my hair out.... I want to keep this thing for around my future cabin planting food plots and such, but not the way its running...


Edited by bigredneck61088 - 16 Mar 2016 at 4:55pm

It sounds like the tractor is surging.  Is the surge prevention spring in place on the throttle rod (the rod to the carburetor throttle)?  Start the tractor and hold the throttle rod with your fingers see what kind of result you get when you throttle up and down using your hand.  (be careful not to touch the manifold).   If controlling the rod will solve the problem, then you need to add the spring if it is missing.  Also, check the air adjustment on the carburetor.  It should be turned all the way in and then backed out about a half round.  Larry 

   Sounds like fuel problem. I know that you have done this already, but start at the source (the tank) and work your way down again.

I appreciate the advice so far, you guys are the best with ACs, and i will check the governor... I understand what a surge/hunt is and it does not appear to be governor related but i haven't tore into the governor, it always seemed to work as needed and is hooked up. I cant recall a spring going to the manifold or not though, can one of you guys send a pic of what its supposed to look like. This tractor had some mickey mousing so i want to make sure. It has a spring on the distributor side that hooks to the governor, but can't remember if there is one on the carb side of the engine or not.  Not a fuel tank issue I have checked the lines/carb 1000 times it seems like....

Got an update, i put a timing light on it tonight and got a surprise. Checked the firing order and everything is good. With the light at full throttle, It runs worse when the fire mark is in the hole, and my previous timed by ear it was running a touch advanced. However the fire mark/line is floating around the whole. This was a surprise to me and the mark never was consistent in where it hit with the light. Distributor worn inside? i checked the shaft and it felt tight but never pulled it off in the "It ain't broke don't rip it apart." mentality..... I know these points ignition systems are finicky, Am I on the right track now? Distributor worn internally? Also ran it for 10 minutes or so and granted it didn't run as good as it did, but it didn't try to die like before either. I am gonna run it for a long period tomorrow and see if it still tries to die.

I am up near akron/canton area of ohio by the way


Edited by bigredneck61088 - 16 Mar 2016 at 10:04pm

Did that tonight at well, fuel flow is great and I put a new screen in a month or so ago, its clean! i feel like I have checked the fuel 100 times, and everytime it flows great. I also messed with the carb again and it doesn't change it. Doesn't seem like fuel to me and have checked the fuel system a bunch.


Edited by bigredneck61088 - 16 Mar 2016 at 10:02pm

Seems to me years ago dist. had a short jumper wire that went down under the point plate. don't know whether your dist. has this wire but sometimes they would short out. Time to long, memory to short, huh, Shameless?   Leon    Cmo

Edited by Dick L - 17 Mar 2016 at 6:14am

Make sure there are no floaters in tank!! same thing happened to me on my 52ca I Thought it was temp related also because it would seem to happen after it warmed up anyhow make sure there are no floaters and make sure if you have a inline filter that that is not plugged check it by removing it and put a jumper line in just to try!! I pulled my hair out trying to find the problem I got advise on this forum on what to check I did not believe it was fuel related BUT IT WAS!! I cleaned tank with vinegar and a chain and removed inline filter cause I Know for sure it is clean now as before same as you, it appeared to be clean!! Now it runs with no issues just my experience. Flow would be great when floater is not sitting on the inlet of the bowl, put a tube/filter up in the
sediment bowl so inlet is not picking up fuel off the bottom. Please let us know what it was/is when you fix

Edited by brenpak - 17 Mar 2016 at 7:07am

Steve in NJ wrote: With the erratic timing, I'm not a betting man normally, but it sounds to me like an Ignition related problem. And I'm thinkin' there's a problem in the Distributor with either the points, (rub block) main shaft runout, or the centrifical advance isn't working correctly. Could be a broken advance spring, or oil or rust that got into the advance weights making things murky in there or rust hanging things up and slowing down the advance. It could be the advance isn't working at all. I'm with Dick on that one. What I do in all my rebuilt Distributors, I coat the advance weights, and the weight plate that the weights ride on with dry graphite lube before reassembly. This keeps the weights moving freely all the time. Do not put oil or any lubricant on the weights. That just attracts dirt and ozone from inside the Distributor. HTH Steve@B&B

DickL's comment and this makes the most sense to me right now, especially since it sat in a dirt floor barn for 6-7 years without running.... I am going to do some more tinkering today and see, probably couldn't hurt to get the distributor rebuilt, I have done the same thing DickL did and have messed with the fuel system and taken the carb apart a million times and I am convinced it has nothing to do with fuel.


Edited by bigredneck61088 - 17 Mar 2016 at 9:16am

DSeries4 wrote: Larry in NC wrote: It sounds like the tractor is surging.  Is the surge prevention spring in place on the throttle rod (the rod to the carburetor throttle)?  Start the tractor and hold the throttle rod with your fingers see what kind of result you get when you throttle up and down using your hand.  (be careful not to touch the manifold).   If controlling the rod will solve the problem, then you need to add the spring if it is missing.  Also, check the air adjustment on the carburetor.  It should be turned all the way in and then backed out about a half round.  Larry  I agree.  Check to see if you have the anti-surge spring. It connects to the middle of the rod that runs from the governor to the carb (should be a hole in the rod), and extends up to one of the manifold studs.  It's not weather sensitive, it can act up whenever it feels like it.  AGCO carries them.

You two guys might be my heroes, I never have had another CA to look at to know if it was missing anything, and overlooked this the first time

Well gentlemen, I may have made some headway this morning. I took the distributor apart and cleaned it up, the advance is pretty simple once i see how it works and it may have been sticking a bit. Started her up and she runs pretty good now. Points were good and reset the gap and put it all back together.

However after rethinking this again and reading the above posts, I took a look at the governor.... I am missing the spring on the carb side of the engine as mentioned above by a few smart fellows, and now after looking at the distributor it looks pretty decent, and I think this missing spring may be the missing link per se. I don't want to jinx myself but i ran it at full throttle and played with the carb side shaft where the spring would be, it runs smoother when i hold it by hand. Can someone take a pic of this spring and where it mounts, and what it looks like?? I don't want to purchase the wrong one, and want to see what it looks like mounted, crossing my fingers but this may be it....

http://www.steinertractor.com/ACS304-governor-rod-linkage-spring  is this the one i need??  Or is there any similar spring i could find locally to test/try... I don't think TSC or Napa would have that one


Edited by bigredneck61088 - 17 Mar 2016 at 11:10am

Who knows anything about these governor systems/adjustment, I went through carb and everything again today and it will purr like a kitten up to 1/2-2/3 throttle, but any higher it runs kinda crappier but if I hold the governor rod, just slight pressure towards the rear it runs great.....

Dick L wrote: Terminology some times throw red necks like myself a curve. We have our own adjectives which gets confusing even to other red necks.  To adjust the governor linkage unhook the linkage on the carburetor side at the end of the governor crossover arm. Push the hand throttle all the way forward to the wide open position.  Pull the linkage from the carburetor forward as far as it will go. To be correct the linkage needs to drop in or lacking about 1/16" from dropping in. If this is not the case you need to bend the crossover arm so it is the case. I have long arms and use a pipe on the end of the crossover arm and a large pipe wrench on the governor side of the arm and push or pull to get it bent to the proper adjustment. If you have short arms you might need a helper.

Well I have some good news for once, I read DickL's post after i figured it out for myself.... So throughout the day, i read manuals, went through the fuel system again, checked timing, checked all wires, regapped and cleaned plugs, made a test spring for the governor, read some more, read on the forums, etc etc.... so after wasting all your guys time, and messing with the governor for 3 hours, I figured out this whole time the governor was not properly adjusted to start, i need to rebend the crossover arm as DickL stated, but i figured that out before i read this post and he just confirmed my suspicion.

So i can only get 1/2 way up the tree before the governor kicks in and it starts running slightly rough, but since its not adjusted right, it lets me go the whole way up the tree but runs crappier and attempting to be governed. I am used to newer engines where the governor basically stops you from that. I read in the manual that max RPM is 1800ish, I had been trying to get this thing to run at higher RPM than suggested and that is always why it ran crappy in one instance or another... and i had the timing advanced to compensate for it.... Which would explain why it used to die when it got warm. Its missing the spring as well on the carb side, and plan on ordering one.

So after all that, she purrs like a kitten throughout the range, will idle surprisingly super low and runs great up to 1/2 way up the tree. It is super smooth for 1951!!! I will eventually bend/lengthen the arm to make it correct and fine tune it, but my grandpa must have just known to not go that far on the tree which threw me off.... She has been running most of the evening and is doing great! Any thoughts/questions/concerns/something i missed??

Thanks for all the help guys, I know it was one big troubleshooting mess, and i appreciate all the input!!! I would have been able to figure this out a lot quicker if I had another CA somewhere to look at ! Here is a pic of her, had to put the good side out as the other rear wheel is pretty rusty from some leaky calcium my pap had in them...









Edited by bigredneck61088 - 17 Mar 2016 at 11:41pm

Nice looking CA