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KungFooMASTA 
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 Topic: Are B & CA belt pulley shaft taper different?
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 3:52am |
This is on a 1938 Model B. I bought a Woods 59 belly mower from a friend he had it mounted on a CA. He said it was built for a B and C, I have the factory Woods manual with it and it shows B and C in it. For the CA he built different brackets to make it work on the wider CA. I always thought C and CA were the same? We have a CA. I have never been around a C. I took his brackets off and everything bolts right up to my B. The only thing that does not work is the pto pulley. It seems the shaft on my tractor is too small the pulley goes on too far. I needed to use the mower so I flipped the pulley backwards just to see if it would work. By hand it works fine but once I turn the pto on slowly releasing the clutch the belt starts coming off because the drive pulley is not lined up right. Do they make tapered shim bushings or can I use some shim stock? Or do I need to find a different woods pulley? I dont have any shim stock but tomorrow I might attempt to ghetto fab it with some gorilla tape as a shim. I didn’t measure the shaft or factory flatbelt or woods pulley tapers yet but will tomorrow. 
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:06am |
never had one BUT.. that belt looks like it has a LOT of twists in it ! Not sitting nice in the pulley and 2-3 twists on the left side down on the white mower deck. I'm sure others who have your combination will respond soon.. it just doesn't 'look right' to me....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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PaulB
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:07am |
#1 The taper on the belt pulley shaft for the B,C,CA and early D10/12 tractors is the same and the pulleys are interchangeable.
#2 if you have the manual for the WOODS belly mower, Carefully read and reread the section of the proper installing the belt with all the twists in the proper place. There are ways to put the belt on with the wrong amount of twists in the wrong place and it will immediately throw the belt off. When everything is done exactly as stated in the manual the belt will run just fine.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:05am |
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That pic is just of it climbing out.
I had the belt in there right. 1/2 twist from deck to rear idler and 3/4 twist from power pulley to front idler. I will try the pulley again.
I just wondered if the early Bs might have been smaller for some reason. Mine is #2000 something.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:08am |
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That drive pulley is on backwards like >< instead of <<. If the drive pulley was half and inch closer to the right it would work. I did speed the deck up to 1/2 speed and it stayed on like in the pic but I did not want to damage the $80 belt so I stopped.
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Nathan (SD)
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:30am |
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Your pulley hits the PTO housing before the nut is tight ? Is that the problem ?
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:49am |
 Nathan (SD) wrote:
Your pulley hits the PTO housing before the nut is tight ? Is that the problem ? |
Yes sir.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:51am |
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I dont know how "loose" the pulley is on the shaft.. If it is just a small amount, maybe you can grind the face of the pulley hub so the pulley will slide on a little further ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:53am |
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The early B has a DIFFERENT size SHAFT I had both shaft size PULLEY's for the woods drive belt. will have to check shelf .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
Just because you do not have the tools for job , it dose not make it a bad design.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:55am |
Fred in Pa wrote:
The early B has a DIFFERENT size SHAFT I had both shaft size PULLEY's for the woods drive belt. will have to check shelf . |
Thanks Fred I will buy it if you will sell it.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:56am |
steve(ill) wrote:
I dont know how "loose" the pulley is on the shaft.. If it is just a small amount, maybe you can grind the face of the pulley hub so the pulley will slide on a little further ? |
The side that would need to be ground is already flush with the spokes.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 9:17am |
The factory pulley is 1.165” on big side. The Woods part 7450 is 1.3”. The shaft is 1.175” at the housing. 
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 9:21am |
Grinding will not work because of shaft SIZE !!!!! Had a customer put a woods mower on his early B and I got the correct pulley from woods dealer .He later sold the mower and the guy that bought used the later pulley . If u have another B sitting around for parts swap out PTO UNITS .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
Just because you do not have the tools for job , it dose not make it a bad design.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:32am |
Fred in Pa wrote:
Grinding will not work because of shaft SIZE !!!!! Had a customer put a woods mower on his early B and I got the correct pulley from woods dealer .He later sold the mower and the guy that bought used the later pulley . If u have another B sitting around for parts swap out PTO UNITS . |
I dont have any parts tractors. If you find that pulley can you let me know the part number on it. Maybe I can find one on ebay.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:40am |
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If I have it i will sell it to you , Thanks
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
Just because you do not have the tools for job , it dose not make it a bad design.
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KungFooMASTA
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Location: Kingman KS
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 2:14pm |
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10-4 thank you good sir.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 4:02pm |
You can tell by the hand brakes and the clutch pedal that this is a rather early B. I would bet it would be a 30's B. Yes Fred there is probably a difference in the belt pulley shaft Hope you have one. KUNGFOOMASTA-, Congratulations of keeping one of my very old favorites - the B - alive and running. I would be pleased to see pictures of your unit. You should be very proud. Good Luck! Bill Long
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:07pm |
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I will get some. It does not have any tin on right now. I wanted to make sure it is going to run good before I put it on. It is pretty straight and rust free. It must have been repainted at some point because there is bondo on the grill surround. I dont plan to repaint it until I get a shop built big enough I can store it inside. Im going to order a new seat and steering wheel for it so my hands stop turning black.
When I got it it had not ran in years but it turned over so I figured it would run if I could get spark. I cleaned the mag up and set the timing according to someone on this site and could only get it to start by pull starting it. When I did get it to start it had no oil pressure. I put a T at the oil pressure guage and used a yard sprayer full of oil to prime it. Then I never got it to start again. I couldn’t hand start it.
It sat since last summer since I did not have time to mess with it and my step dad told me to advance the timing just a bit and I did and was able to get it to hand start. It also had oil pressure once it did start this time. Now I can start it within 5 quarter cranks usually.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:28pm |
Here it is where I found it. Behind a neighbors garage. He does not know how long he has had it. He claims it ran when he parked it but i dont know how. None of the spark plug wires were in the right spot even. 
Edited by KungFooMASTA - 18 Oct 2020 at 7:29pm
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Bill Long
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:18pm |
Thanks for showing pictures. Really looks good for an older unit. Check the serial number to determine the age. It is by the gear shift lever to the rear. At this age has probably been well painted over. May have to clear for reading. I understand there is a serial number list on this page. If not let me know I have a list. The 30's B serial numbers go from 1 - 33983. If you are looking for a newer PTO unit for a B-C there are two on e-bay. In fact one has a v belt pulley attached. Take good care of my favorite Good Luck! Bill Long
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Ted J
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 3:54pm |
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For its age, that is one great looking B. The tires are worth a lot, they look new! You got a great deal there. I hope you get it all figured out, they are a great 'lawnmower'.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 5:15pm |
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I cant remember the exact number but its #28XX. It is not the super early ones with a Wisconsin engine it has the Small Allis engine.
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Gary
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:16pm |
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FYI Ser. 2802 is in the Owner Registry.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:45pm |
2854 
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:51pm |
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allis-Chalmers-C-B-Belt-Pulley-PTO-Assembly-With-Hydraulic-Pump/293425707166?hash=item445188f89e:g:hI0AAOSwLfxeH0mpIf I got this one would I be able to have hydraulics on it. Where would the tank mount? I dont think Bs came with hydraulics. Did IBs come with hydraulics?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 7:22pm |
that housing should fit a B or a C tractor.. The SUMP is the oil cavity. Holds a couple extra quarts of oil in the transmission / bevel gear box.. The HYD valve is the thing on the right side of the case.. The PUMP is part of the valve and is inside the case... all held on by 4 bolts. Since this is a very LOW VOLUMN pump you can run ONE cylinder of 1-2 inch diameter to lift a plow / blade / ect... It is not for a front end loader with cylinders 3 ft long. When you slide the housing onto your bevel gear case, the internals drive off the top shaft of the transmission.. You have to have the motor running and clutch engaged ( foot off pedal) for the unit to run.. Push in the clutch and it STOPS.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 7:24pm |
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it says NON RUNNING, so i would assume you will have to pull the pump / valve and disassemble / clean / reset......... it may not work properly in present condition.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 7:33am |
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Did not find small shaft pulley ,called customer he dose have it ,but want to hold on to it right now just in case he get's the idea to buy another mower for tractor .The pulley was over $125. from woods dealer .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
Just because you do not have the tools for job , it dose not make it a bad design.
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KungFooMASTA
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Location: Kingman KS
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:32pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
that housing should fit a B or a C tractor.. The SUMP is the oil cavity. Holds a couple extra quarts of oil in the transmission / bevel gear box.. The HYD valve is the thing on the right side of the case.. The PUMP is part of the valve and is inside the case... all held on by 4 bolts. Since this is a very LOW VOLUMN pump you can run ONE cylinder of 1-2 inch diameter to lift a plow / blade / ect... It is not for a front end loader with cylinders 3 ft long. When you slide the housing onto your bevel gear case, the internals drive off the top shaft of the transmission.. You have to have the motor running and clutch engaged ( foot off pedal) for the unit to run.. Push in the clutch and it STOPS.
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Oh ok thank you good to know. My dads ca has that I always wondered where the hyd tank was. It would be nice to have some hydraulics. I want to build a small pull behind box blade.
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KungFooMASTA
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:33pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
it says NON RUNNING, so i would assume you will have to pull the pump / valve and disassemble / clean / reset......... it may not work properly in present condition. |
That might be more than I want to do.
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