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jaybmiller 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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 Topic: 8HP Kohler magnum mystery
Posted: 14 May 2020 at 5:30am |
sigh, gettin too old for this.. neighbour's Horse rototiller,engine kinda slowed down, stumble, died. He replaces sparkplug and air filter. Won't start. has good blue spark,plug .025, gas, compression,kinda hard to spin over,won't even cough or bark with gas into carb or cylinder. was low on oil, now full. hard(for me) to pull over with plug, easy without. I was thinking 'kinda siezed' but she spins and valves open/close. Not ONE bang. Anyone work on them before ?? ANY ideas what's wrong ?? I though about timing but he was in the garden, NO rocks, it just slowly died.. sure wish it had electric start.... thanks for any insight. Jay
Edited by jaybmiller - 14 May 2020 at 5:33am
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baverwolf
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Joined: 24 May 2010
Location: SE Montana
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 8:19am |
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Could it have maybe partially sheared the flywheel key causing timing to be off and it fights against itself???
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 8:32am |
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I had one similar several years ago... Got low on oil and the aluminum bushing/ bearing on end of the crank "stuck".... Not bad, so i broke it free and filled with oil and rotated 100 times till it felt "better"... tried to start and it only had 40 psi compression... Rings got hot and distorted.... had to hone and new rings.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 42036
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 10:08am |
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Had Techumsa on my tiller and no spark as well as carb was bad from water in carb that froze - found it cheaper to go to Harbor Freight and get new engine for under $100 and repower it .
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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chaskaduo
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Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 11:04am |
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Them $99 6hp Predators are a pig in a poke. Gotta get em up and running right away to see if any good after a week of use. I call em the Good, the Bad, and the Fugly. Been there, but good one's seem to last well.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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ac fleet
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:04pm |
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repower is a royal pain!--the replacements never fit and the el-cheepos are a joke!
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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
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Dusty MI
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:50pm |
I have a repowered 720. It had been repowered before I bought it. It's working very well.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 3:39pm |
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I see a lot of them $99. Predators being put on go carts and there is a version with a 3 speed to repower old HONDA 70 mini Bikes from the 1970s.
Edited by steve(ill) - 14 May 2020 at 3:40pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Walker
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: oh
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 6:39pm |
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Don't underestimate the 6hp 99 buck Predator for price, quality and buildability. Some of them 6 hp Predators you see at the go kart tracks are actually putting out 25. They got a hemi version too if ya can find one.
Edited by Walker - 14 May 2020 at 6:42pm
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Walker
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 6:59pm |
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If ya get bored do a youtube search for Detroit City mini bike races. Should make a believer out of you.
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HD6GTOM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2009
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Posted: 14 May 2020 at 9:34pm |
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Dad's tiller, the exhaust valve seat would raise up outta the block. Caused him many hours of problems before they figured it out.
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Dave H
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Location: Central IL
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 9:43am |
I bought one of those HF 99buck motors to repower my ancient tiller.
The take off was the traditional 5 hp aluminum Briggs. The knock off dropped right onto the frame and the bolt on holes were an exact fit up (same as Briggs).
Gave the rope one yank and have been running the hey out of it for three years.
been kinda contemplating giving it an oil change this year. 
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copyrite1972
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Location: idaho
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:16am |
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Did the Harbor Frieght $100.00 engine swap on my Troy Bilt Tiller, took longer to go get it than it did to install it!
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D15 Series II
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Walker
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:18am |
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Predator is a Honda clone, right down to a lot of part interchangeability. I'm sure it's a tad lacking in quality but for a 100 smackers what the hey. There is a lot of things the Chinkos need blamed for Predators aint one of em.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:53am |
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I had 2 out of 3 fail right out of the box. Crack in case on one (Fugly), and no spark on another (Bad), third one a charm (Good). lot of running and fanagulin involved.
Edited by chaskaduo - 15 May 2020 at 10:53am
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Dennis(IA)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: IOWA
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 11:39am |
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Had something similar on a 12 horse Kohler. The check is easy, remove the cover for the timing gear ( 4 bolts I think) and check the compression relief mechanism. My engine had the spring come off (I think, many moons ago) thus no compression relief. Put it back on, never happened again ?????
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Walker
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 4:25pm |
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Until now I've never heard of anybody having any trouble with Predator motors till after it's had the governor removed and been properly flailed but I still think they are the best things to come out of Wuhanland for awhile. They sure beat them Lihuan or whatever they were.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 5:04pm |
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Haven't bought one for 5-6 years, some maybe improved.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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DiyDave
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 5:35pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
sigh, gettin too old for this.. neighbour's Horse rototiller,engine kinda slowed down, stumble, died. He replaces sparkplug and air filter. Won't start. has good blue spark,plug .025, gas, compression,kinda hard to spin over,won't even cough or bark with gas into carb or cylinder. was low on oil, now full. hard(for me) to pull over with plug, easy without. I was thinking 'kinda siezed' but she spins and valves open/close. Not ONE bang. Anyone work on them before ?? ANY ideas what's wrong ?? I though about timing but he was in the garden, NO rocks, it just slowly died.. sure wish it had electric start.... thanks for any insight. Jay
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I'm thinkin, you need to check compression, a burnt head gasket may be the culprit... 
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 4:02pm |
well can't check compression... like most 'newer ' engines has Auromatic Compression Release.. though finger ove rplug hole says it has compression. It ain't timing... after a 'fun' afternoon ,finally got flywheel off, key is 100% perfect.... Has NO bang,pop, not ONE hint of firing.... has gas, spark and timing...dang curious.. Sure would be nice if it had electric start though....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 8:34am |
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Since you've got the fan shroud off just use your impact on the flywheel nut it works just as good as an electric starter
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 9:01am |
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Should still have a condenser even if electronic IIRC, if does change it.
EDIT:
on second thought just noticed this series engine should be mechanical fuel pump equipped, not just gravity. Diaphragm could be bad.
Edited by DMiller - 17 May 2020 at 9:07am
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ac fleet
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 1:18pm |
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One thing I ran into on my 147 cadet was that the compression release was bent too much and was letting too much compression out causing it to not fire. ---- I bent the tab so it didnt open so much and the thing been running ever since. ----That could be your problem too. --- compression releases are a PITA on any motor and very hard to set. -- be careful to not break the tab off when messin with them cause thats the only way you can set them ---- no adjustment with screws on them.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 2:39pm |
so far NOTHING says WHY it can't fire, not even a chug or bang or pfff.. it has spark, gas,compression and timing. dang mystery to me.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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ac fleet
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 6:38pm |
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But it has to have ENOUGH compression! ---some wont do and without right amount they wont do anything.
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Walker
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 6:53pm |
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Time to administer ether?
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A-C_220
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 7:33pm |
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Is the gas good? did it get some water in the tank from a bad gas cap and suck it up? does it wet the spark plug?
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 8:24pm |
it was running fine , then slowly died in the garden... fresh gas, new plug and air filter.. I've even put gas directly into the carb (that should be rich...no choke neeed)..nada, not even a cough.. same with take plug out, gas into cylinder, put plug back in nada, not even a cough....
every other engine I've ever done either too gets at least a back, backfire, cough, something that says I'm trying to start.......
due to silly cv19 BS, I can't get parts for a spare engine to see if it'll replace this one... luckily I have 7 jobs on the go, 3 more 'appered' today..so engine is literally on the shelf for a week...maybe...it might get kicked into the garbage sooner though....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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modirt
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Posted: 18 May 2020 at 8:30am |
Always thought Kohler engines were OK. Having 2nd thoughts. My zero turn SCAG dropped dead on me last year. Took 2 or 3 weeks to get it back......had some kind of short in the wiring. Lasted till yesterday.......was running OK when parked. Pulled it out, filled with gas, added oil.....leaks past oil filter seal that will not stay tight.......and she started right up......but would cough, sputter.....come back, etc. Got progressively worse as I went on. I assumed it was water in the gas......was acting like it, but drained gas and filled with new and it didn't help. Will still start, idle, but that is all.
Something is going out........or it has another short in the wiring or a sensor is going bad. Too many safety sensors on these for my taste.
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ac fleet
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Posted: 18 May 2020 at 11:40am |
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Modirt---its not your engines fault its the mower that its mounted on!
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