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PaulB 
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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 Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 11:10am |
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It's not so much the flow of the waterpump (most will flow more than you think) but the heat transfer ability of the complete cooling system. Back in the early 70s we needed a bigger farm tractor and put a 383 into a M Farmall and pulled a 4X16 semi plow all day long. With the governor it ran at about 2200. We used a 5 blade fan from a F5 Ford that was a straight drive to get the fan placed correctly in the radiator shroud. Most V8 engines have a viscous drive or a flex fan, which will move enough air at idle with no load to keep them cool. Hiway vehicles depend on road speed to get the needed airflow for cooling.
As mentioned above; the bolt in swap would be any of the small size AC engines. 116- 160 CID any thing from a W_ tractor or D17 might could work, but would give you fits to make it all fit. One note on the BE/CE engines, although the physical size and mounts are workable, there would be no place to install the power steering pump as the 138/149/160 engines have. Fire up your torch and welder and have at it. Take pictures!
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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DougS
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
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Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 12:10pm |
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Joe... the difference is that the tractor is going twice as fast in each gear when the engine is turning 3300 RPM instead of 1650 RPM. It also makes a difference when your 540 RPM PTO is now turning at 1080 RPM. For show, it doesn't matter. If you're going to do field work things get a little more complicated.
Of course you could gear the engine output down by 2:1, but that gets very complicated.
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427435
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Location: SE Minnesota
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Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 3:06pm |
Just remember that for every 10% increase in torque, the life of transmission gears and bearings are cut in half. Fun to play with the added power, but be careful not to work too much with it. 
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 12:13pm |
 427435 wrote:
Just remember that for every 10% increase in torque, the life of transmission gears and bearings are cut in half. Fun to play with the added power, but be careful not to work too much with it.
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When adding power the wise way to go is increased engine speed. When M&W had the repower kit for the 5010 & 5020 tractors using the 3208 Cat engines they when up to 2800 RPM so the a lower gear could be used to get the same field speed. A shaft of the same size can transmit more power at a faster speed. This is why the 1000 RPM PTO was developed. The old 540 PTO had about reached the limit of the material at about 75 HP. The same will apply to gears and bearings. Slower speed and high toque will ruin things in a hurry. Also with added power don't add weight for traction, that will also cause big problems. When we had the V8 in the M we always had a dual wheel on the left side instead of adding a lot of weight. After finding a better bearing for the pilot bearing in the Farmall transmission we didn't have any more problems. That is the weak point in all of the Farmall 5 speeds.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Steve in NJ
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Location: Andover, NJ
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 12:27pm |
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Joe, yer' right! Not only is the bellhousing splay on a sbc & bbc the same through all the years, its also the same on the 153 cube inline 4 banger, the 194-250 inline 6 holer, as well as the 292 cube inline! There would be a lot of applications if someone made and offered one of those puppies. Tracy Martin where are ya? Tracy's a machinest! Here ya go Tracy. I'll bet you can sell a heck of a lot more adapter plates than Model G handles! LOL!! Oh almost forgot! The 4.3L V6 to like I have in my Vicky.
Steve@B&B
Edited by Steve in NJ - 03 Jun 2016 at 12:29pm
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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desertjoe
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 3:05pm |
Yeah,,Steve,,,thas what I've always liked bout them Chevys,,is the vast availability of just bout any engine they made would interchange. And it ain't always the guys that got lots of money lookin at engine swaps,,,it is just as many if not more,,,some Farmer that's got a broke down tractor and is lookin at that trk that has a bad transmission,,but a great 350 engine,,,,!!! And,,,how bout a D17 4 banger into a D14,,,??? Lots of possibilities if you look around. I'd be real surprised if several pullers haven't done this number many,, many times already,,,,, How bout it Tracy,,,,??? 
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427435
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Location: SE Minnesota
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 5:17pm |
PaulB wrote:
427435 wrote:
Just remember that for every 10% increase in torque, the life of transmission gears and bearings are cut in half. Fun to play with the added power, but be careful not to work too much with it.
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When adding power the wise way to go is increased engine speed. When M&W had the repower kit for the 5010 & 5020 tractors using the 3208 Cat engines they when up to 2800 RPM so the a lower gear could be used to get the same field speed. A shaft of the same size can transmit more power at a faster speed. This is why the 1000 RPM PTO was developed. The old 540 PTO had about reached the limit of the material at about 75 HP. The same will apply to gears and bearings. Slower speed and high toque will ruin things in a hurry. Also with added power don't add weight for traction, that will also cause big problems. When we had the V8 in the M we always had a dual wheel on the left side instead of adding a lot of weight. After finding a better bearing for the pilot bearing in the Farmall transmission we didn't have any more problems. That is the weak point in all of the Farmall 5 speeds. |
The problem with going to a lower gear with a higher engine rpm is that the lower gear ratio has a small pinion driving a larger gear. That small pinion could be a problem. First gear in a tractor may not be designed to handle full stock hp as the limiting factor would normally be traction.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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Dan73
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 5:31pm |
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Mark you make it sound like they designed the tractor for a certain size motor......
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 9:24pm |
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Joe, a smaller pulley would do it, maybe? You could sure speed it up that way. You prolly already know how to figure pulley speeds. Over 50 yrs. ago an old guy put a 430 Linc. in a F-12 Farmall. He made folks set up and take notice for a while.
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180Puller
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Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 9:42pm |
Giddyup 409...
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desertjoe
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Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 4:22am |
OK,,,180Puller,,,I LOVE IT,,,!!! Jeeeze,,lok at the size of them rear tires,,!! But,,,,but,,,you gotta give and let us guys that are salivatin to know how you shoehorned thet 348,,,,,er,,,,409,,,into that tractor,, Just love them valve covers for sure,,,, Did you do the project yourself? Where did you get the adapter,,?? I'm not positive,, but I bet ole Steve with the Vickey knows if the bell housing bolt pattern is same as a SBC,,,I helped a friend on a 425 HP 409 goin into a 55 Chevy and it was a Muncie 4 speed, but didn't pay 'tention to bell housing,,but it bein a CHEVY,,I almost bet it is same as a SBC,,!! ! gosh,,I got a train car load of questions and I'm getting more excited'er by the minute,,,,and DON'T be like ole Shameless,,,and give us MORE PICS,,!!!
Edited by desertjoe - 04 Jun 2016 at 4:25am
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180Puller
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Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 9:34am |
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That picture was taken at Iola,KS in 1971? and its the only picture I have..It was a 5000 lb Mod puller built by the late Henry Moody from Kincaid,Kansas..It was a WC powered by a 409 Chevy....It went thru rear ends quite often...Those are 24.5x32 tires....Henry built a new tractor and sold the WC to Claude Barnes at Raymore,MO....I don't know what happened to it..
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427435
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Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 11:24am |
Dan73 wrote:
Mark you make it sound like they designed the tractor for a certain size motor...... |
Pretty much.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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SHAMELESS
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Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:23pm |
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well if someone has one, or akes one that fits...make a pattern for us others! me thinks that the one that's on mine should fit most of the small GM V-8's. maybe if/when I gits to this tractor, i'm sure i'll hafta pull the engine for overhaul if it needs it, then maybe I can make a wooden pattern?
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Dan73
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Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 7:35pm |
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Just make sure Joe doesn't try to test fit that wooden pattern at full working torque I would hate to see such a hard to come by pattern broken....
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SHAMELESS
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 1:17am |
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like Leon...lots of years ago I was at a tractor pull at Arlington,Ne. lots of different modified tractors there that night, all fancied up....then in came an older dude about 70+ years old ona old rusty Farmall with a big Caddy engine on it....I ean there wasn't a spec of paint anywhere on that thing! welded up well pipes for the headers! everyone laughing at him and his tractor....until....he outpulled every single one of them! no one was laughing after that! he was on that circuit for any years with that same tractor, I did overhear a couple of pullers saying to their crew to load their tractors back up if that guy showed up at the pulls! i'm sure he's gone now, but have often wondered what ever became of that tractor!
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Dan73
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 5:29am |
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My farmall h is like that with rust. It looks like they never painted it in the first place. That is a great story I can just see it happening.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 8:14am |
You know,,Shameless,,,I really been thinkin on your Chevy Allis,,,,as I completely missed the boat on you maybe be having just exactly what LOTZ of us Boys been a'wantin to look into,,,,!!! Gosh,,it been right under our noses and I for one have just went all the way 'round it,,,,,but,,,BUT,,,NO MORE,,!!!! I want to reiterate,,,,( I like thet word),,, we need to strike a deal and soon,,,, cause I can hep you make some money,,,'course you might have to help a little,,you know like handin me tools so's I don't have to crawl out from under it too many times,,,and I kinda enjoy some iced Peach tea every now and then,,,,,, You outa go ahead of me comin up and spray the whole tractor W/ some Home Defense,,,Ya know to get all them Nebraska spiders and such to start leaving their 20+ years homes in thar,,,,,so's we can work peaceably,,,, Just so I can get my ducks ina row,,,,,you said it has two (2) transmissions,,,,? did they install a Chevy transmission,,,AND the allis transmission or ,,,,???? Are Ya getting excited bout all thet money,,,????
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Dan73
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 8:34am |
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Joe I am just guessing but from some of the other builds I have seen of farmall pulling tractors I bet it had a chevy transmission that I'd adapted to mate with the allis transmission. I have seen that done on a farmall h they had a 350 hooked up to one of those old 3 speed I think power glides and then to the regular h. I asked the guy about it after the tractor pulls and he said it was just easier and the automatic really came in handy during the pulls.
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Dan73
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 8:36am |
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If you removed the torque tube in an allis d serries and built it that way you probably wouldn't change the lenght much but you would loose the shuttle clutch or power direct and the pto.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 10:44am |
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I got a 140HP Mercruiser Chevy 4 banger sitting under the bench just a waitin' ta' go into my flat tank WC after I retire. Lookin' forward to doin' that project once I get all the others outta' way...
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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45 turboa-
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 2:27pm |
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In a couple of years when I retire i'm going to put a 433I in a WD45 and it will still be a workable tractor if the boss lets me you all know how that goes. I don't believe in putting in V8s in tractors unless just for show.
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turbocharged
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SHAMELESS
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Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 10:23pm |
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they are both AC trannys, each has their own gear shifter
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desertjoe
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Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 3:11am |
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"" they are both AC trannys, each has their own gear shifter ""
Gosh Dang,,,but I wish with ALL our "wantins" for to see this tractor,,,,that "somebody" that maybe lives close by,,,maybe like,,,,across the river,,,would sneak,,er mosey over there and snap some pics of this engineerin marvel,,,,you know showin the pertinent details,,,you know like close ups and all,,,and then post em for all the world to see and drool,,,,,,,,,,,,
I HAVE IT,,,!!!,,,and it's been right under our noses all this time,,,,ole Les lives right close don't he,,,??? NOW,,,if'n we can just talk ole Shameless into inviting him over for coffee and Aronias,,,,we might get to second base on this mtstery,,,,????
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SHAMELESS
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Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 3:39am |
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maybe....when I gits around to it, i'll puts that power steering on it, since no one wants it here!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 6:26am |
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Steve....
Lookin' forward to doin' that project once I get all the others outta' way...
hahaha, lol, hehehe,
good one...
I did 27 friggin 'projects' on Saturday, NOT on MY list, it'd be nice to FINISH just ONE of MINE this summer...well OK maybe this year ???
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 6:31am |
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I have a good 8.2 Detroit hooked to an Allison automatic guess I could extend the frame
on a WD45 and hook it right up?
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