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"restoring history" |
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CAdon
Orange Level Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Location: southern CA Points: 1019 |
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Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 11:01am |
as a long time member of the orange empire railway museum (perris, ca) i've been involved in this discussion often re railroad equipment, but now i'm venturing into the tractor arena (very enthusiastically!).
so what better place than this forum to raise some questions about "proper" restoration... the basic one is this: if we restore an old tractor to "as built" condition eliminating modifications that users have made for their own applications are we restoring history or destroying it? i do hope there is a museum somewhere with reference "as builts" representing the various ac models. i would love to see one next to an "as last used" twin that has been adapted over time. what a story that display could tell. for what it's worth, my own approach is & will be to restore functionality as used and when repainting (for preservation) and replacing parts to be as accurate as possible to the original... unless that part has been replaced or modified "on purpose" by a prior owner. another way of saying it might be that i'm more interested in how the tractor was used than how it looked at the factory. another factor is, uh, this is my tractor and i will actually be using it myself. and will add some homemade "attachments". i do plan to take it down to the rr museum when they have "other old restored stuff" days and i will definitely show it in it's work clothes. all above is just personal opinion, of course, offered only for reference. i am much more interested in yours.
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Rfdeere
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Idaville, IN Points: 3283 |
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That is what is nice about this hobby. Some guys love to see the showroom new, just off the factory floor restorations. Others like the old rusty but mechanically ok tractors. Then you have the crowd that likes WC's with V8 engines stuffed in them. Then there is enthusiast's that like the no restoration, but very well kept original tractors. And we have collectors that the implements draw there attenton.
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Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners,
http://www.rumelyallis.com |
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scott
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: michigan Points: 2460 |
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You arent gonna paint your Allis Chalmers green are you? On the other hand a gage that doesnt say A/C on it but restores function is perfectly acceptable. Its your machine, you can restore to the ultimate detail but most people probably wouldnt see the necessity. The first time you use it it will get "stained". You are going to USE your machine arent you?
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CAdon
Orange Level Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Location: southern CA Points: 1019 |
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randy - valve cover had 1/2" plus protective patina of oil/grease/dirt covering like-new paint so i can get a good match... or else persian orange #1 i guess. most definitely orange like my blood has become.
scott - yep it was bought as and will remain a working tractor. currently just moving dirt around but will be growing at least a few small test feed crops by this summer. need to put in a well before i can grow much... am on the last outpost of city water and that's prohibitive for crop$. kinda surprised here to see 300+ readers but only 2 responders. i guess most people here are more interested in acquiring or dispensing practical information (very understandable). but this topic was introduced in response to lots of "got my dad's/grandpa's/uncles's tractor" and i was hoping to see a whole range of opinions.
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jccleav
Orange Level Joined: 11 May 2011 Location: Indianola IA Points: 211 |
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I go for the "ugliest" prize myself. It is not unusual for me to go to the parade with the tractor missing pieces. Time and money being the limiting factors. Different and unique is another catagory. I do not see the point in having a trailer queen for anything. If you can not use it then no point in speding the time and money.
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The joy is in the journey.
AC "B" and "WD" and "C" |
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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The nice thing about tractors is they are not usually a rare commodity. Take a WC, I seem to recall there were over 150,000 built. There are enough surviving that just about anyone can find one at a price they can afford and it's not critical that every last one needs a 100 percent restoration to factory original condition. In fact it would be downright boring to go to a show where every tractor was the same when it rolled of the assembly line. Part of what makes it interesting is seeing what has been done over 50, 60 or 70 years to keep a tractor useable, improve it or make it suite an owners personal taste.
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AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company
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David Gibson (OH)
Orange Level Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Hollansburg, OH Points: 493 |
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When I first started this hobby I was all about "Just like it rolled off the line", but recently I have been thinking about this a lot and I think farmer modifications are also a part of history. I think a heathy mix of both are good.
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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Well, I have my neighbors first tractor, a 35 WC. He also happened to be my Son in law's Grandfather, so I have my granddaughter's, great grandpas first tractor. Most non original things are going back the way Leroy used it. It had a starter and genny added when it was OH at some time so that stays. It did have a BIG hole in the hood for a straight up manifold, but it's going to end up with a side winder manifold and flattened straight pipe. I t also had lights and electrical box cobbled on so there are some alterations in that but basically for little more convenience and aesthetics it has been changed.
This old gal sat out on the edge of the timber for nigh onto 30 years. Not A job to restore to make money on. I've got 3 times what the tractor would sell for in $ invested and a whole bunch of my own labor and it's not really done, though I have driven it around in all gears, applied brakes at idle and at full throttle to check out the governor and carb settings. It has been a learning experience and I should have a good runnin tractor for as long as I live. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Bolivar Boy
Orange Level Joined: 27 Dec 2011 Location: wooster, ohio Points: 641 |
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this forum appears to be a lot of different things to a lot of different people. from geezers with an itch to skippy first year FFA student. so you'll probably get more than 3 responses. most are die hard ac guys, some are still trying to figure out what they really have. this forum has guys that actually designed or assembled, tested or set up new ac manufactured ag equipment. they remember punching a clock, the heat from the engine lines and the pop machine in one building or another that never gave correct change, or their father/mother did. it appears to me that this forum has a goodly number of full time production farmers, like real time guys that are farming for profit plus a ton of part time guys that do the farming trick to support what ever jones they have. the rest of the crowd fall somewhere in between novice to concourse quality restorer. many spent pre and post adolesence time in, on or around some type of ac equipment, using it or sales/servicing it. this web site is truely remarkable because it has the people resources to support what ever you are doing or contemplating doing with any sort of ac equipment. and they do it, from my time around here, willingly, as if their input could weigh in on the final outcome of your project. got questions about commodity prices, fertilizer applications, bean futures and the chance of rain? some one here will give you pretty good advice. need a spec on a wd crank or the lift on a 170 cam, its rock solid.
one last item, many of us expect to live long enough to see, once again, an announcement touting the new and improved "sign of the rising power". well...maybe just me.....tp studer. wooster,ohio.
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gary ny
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: verona ny Points: 361 |
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When I do a tractor for a customer I do alot of research on the tractor ,I try very hard to make sure that is as close to factory as I can get it .But I had a guy that wanted his 39 B just the way it came from the factory so I told him I can do that or we can make it look good.He looked at me funny and I said that when they did these at the factory the did not care how many runs there were, they didn't care if it shined and if there was someone on the seat he would have painted orange as well. these old tractors had a very unique style to them no matter what the brand ,I personal like to see them painted and detailed with the new wires mags polished and things done that were not as the factory would have done them such as the lights black ,geneators black ,radiator s black .Things that make the design stand out and the color stand out from the accents .the old days you could look in a field and see a tractor and you could tell right away what it was ,now days its hard.These are just my thoughts on how I like to see them and how I do them but it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks as long as your happy with what you have and its the way you like it.Most all the ones I do anymore are trailor queens and the most work they do is climb up on there trailors and climb off and go back in the barn after the shows but every one are loved and pampered by there owners , so its a nice hobby to be a part of
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wdforty5
Silver Level Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Illinois Points: 163 |
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Good points, variety is the spice of life.
I have aftermarket fender lights, a duetz allis oil pressure gauge, looms on all the wiring, 12 volts, a new non-allis key switch, decals wrong and such on my 45...and couldnt be happier! It all works for me and that tractor brightens each day I get to use it.
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"Old Iron...built to last"
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CAdon
Orange Level Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Location: southern CA Points: 1019 |
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i'll be going to my first "show" in april. i hope & expect that that's where i'll see fully restored "as made" versions next to some "as used" units. the term trailer queen sounds
derogatry, but i'm sure glad they are around to have that comparison available. so i guess my own bottomline is: a hearty thanks to anyone who keeps AC's (especially) from the scrap heap in whatever condition they have the ability or desire to keep it.
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52 CA, 41 B and a little B1 oh, yeah... and an 8N ford snuck in there, too.
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wjohn
Orange Level Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: KS Points: 1820 |
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Someday I'd like to restore my '39 B to close to original shape, with all of the unique '39- and other early B-specific parts. It'll get used to plow and cultivate though, so I won't spend a ton of time and money on paint, but I'll do more than "rattle can" it. My '40 B has already been converted to electric start, so I have no qualms about swapping in foot brakes or making a few other improvements. I have no clue what to do with my WC yet.
Some farmer modifications I like and some I don't. I guess if I like it, I'll keep it on the tractor. If not, it goes... like the car rims on the front of my '39 and the dooky gas cap.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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donais
Silver Level Joined: 29 Dec 2011 Location: Ramona Ca Points: 160 |
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hey are you going to the show it tulare? i went to the world ag expo up there and saw the advertising for it
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CAdon
Orange Level Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Location: southern CA Points: 1019 |
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yep, that's the plan.
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52 CA, 41 B and a little B1 oh, yeah... and an 8N ford snuck in there, too.
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wbecker
Orange Level Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: STL Points: 837 |
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What Randy F said!! Bill B |
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Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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