Poor Plowing with IH 420 3 Bottom on D17IV
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33260
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Topic: Poor Plowing with IH 420 3 Bottom on D17IV
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Subject: Poor Plowing with IH 420 3 Bottom on D17IV
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 4:29pm
First, I want to thank Dr. Allis for his helpful advice on getting the hydraulics worked out on the IV. The lift arms wouldn't lower consistently. After making sure all linkages were free, I removed the rear cap with two small allen screws, and freed up the piston, which had a little corrosion around it. That, plus an extra washer under the return spring allowed the arms to lower with just my weight on them.
Part 2 of the story is I found a set of IH 420 3 16 plows, with category I 3 ph (I would have though they would cat 2, but the manual shows them as cat 1), fairly cheap and in excellent condition. I even have the operator's manual.
I started by adjusting everything so sitting on a level driveway, they were level side to side and front to back. However, the front bottom would penetrate, while the rear would be up in the air with the front of the share barely scraping. I could lengthen the toplink so that all three bottoms would run almost even, but raising it with the top link so long almost drags the rear bottom on the ground. I can get side-to-side pretty level with adjustment of the lift links, but even after getting a few rounds in, the plow is just weird. Like I said, if I get it to start to plow properly, the top link is so long I can't really raise the rear bottom out of the ground at full lift, and if I level the plow normally, the rear won't penetrate.
The only thing I am thinking is the IV has 18.4 tires, so I'm wondering if they are messing up the geometry of the setup so that the angle between the tractor and plow becomes odd.
I've never used these plows before, but i am assuming they are "normal" 3 ph plows, that should work with the D17.
One final thing, whoever mentioned on this list that a set of 3 16's would be a handful for the Allis is correct. I am plowing some pretty rough, stony ground to try to get into buckwheat to start to bring it back, and the D17 has all it can handle in high 1st.
Any experience with these plows, or what might be going wrong? BTW, anyone want a set of cheap 420 plows, send me an email, as they will be going up for sale, once I get the buckwheat field done. If all else fails, I will finish plowing with the Farmall 200 with its 2 14 plows, that do a really excellent job. Just hate to embarrass the Allis on her first summer on the farm.
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Replies:
Posted By: Dave (Mid-MI)
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 6:40pm
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Sounds like you need to lower the top link mounting location on the tractor. dave
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 6:41pm
Adjust right lift link 2" higher than the left to start with. Get the plow in the ground and adjust side to side for level and fore and aft level. After a round adjust again. Also check you depth to make sure you are around 8" deep for best effect. Your wheels should be adjusted acording to the manual and also the plow hitch. Your right rear wheel at the inside should line up with the very edge of the front bottom's point. Adjust your front axle so it follows the furrow. If the plow isn't adjusted right it can pull very hard. If it's rusty it will plow hard until you get a mirror image. I pull a 4x14 with the D17 in 2nd low in heavy soil. Heavy soil meaning some blue clay here and there and that's heavy. Don't forget to set your Traction Booster. Is this a trip plow? My 2000 Monofram 4x18 had rusted up trips and it was hard on things until I took each trip apart to clean and lube. Wasn't easy. Good luck.
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 7:00pm
Dave and Lonn, thanks for the feedback.
Dave, the IH plow manual says to use the lower position for the toplink on the tractor. I wasn't sure how that would relate to the D17 positions, but I have hooked it into the uppermost of the 3 holes on the 17. I would have thought it shouldn't matter that much, as I adjust the length of the toplink to level the plow fore and aft. I'll try moving down to the lowest hole tomorrow, but how would that affect things? Do I have the wrong geometry by using the top hole? As you can tell, I'm not very good at setting up 3 point mounted plows.
Lonn, I got the tire widths close to being right. The rears are about 3 inches wider than they should be, but I have been driving with the tire a bit to the right, trying to get an even cut on the front bottom.
The real problem I'm having is if I lengthen the toplink enough to get the plow remotely level front to rear, the rear of the plow is hanging way down when I raise it fully. The side to side I'm slowly getting close, as I make a few more rounds and keep adjusting the lift link winging screws.
I do have a factory 3 ph on the 17, that I installed recently off a salvaged 180.
I'm wondering if I made a mistake. I don't remember any Snap Coupler plows giving me this much trouble!
Thanks again, and I'll keep tweeking.
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 7:23pm
Dave,
Eureka! I see what you mean with the toplink. In order to have a parallelogram, the distance from the hitch pins to the mast hole on the plow would have to have a similar vertical distance from the toplink point on the tractor to the draft arm connections - is that right? If the tractor toplink connection were too high, it would lift the rear bottom as the front penetrated - is that correct? I made up a little model with popsicle sticks, and that what seems to happens.
Tomorrow, I'll try the lower toplink hole on the D17, although I might have to find a shorter toplink, as the one I am using is already screwed almost all the way in.
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 7:38pm
Yup, if you want the plow to lift level the top link to lower link height needs to be the same front and rear. If the front is taller than the rear, the rear of the plow lifts poorly. That shows up with cheap implements with a short three point tower that tilt to the rear when lifted. If the front height is smaller than the rear height, the rear of the plow will lift higher than the front.
The popsickle stick model is a good one. I used AutoCad to work out the details with dimensions.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: Russ SCPA
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 8:49pm
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On the top link connection,
bottom hole on tractor, top hole on plow mast. A normal D 17 should flat simply walk off with a 3-16 moldboard. My nieghbor pulled a 4-14 trailer plow in heavy sods with his D 17 in the low side of third.
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Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 9:10pm
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I was always told the put the left wheels of the tractor up on 6X6's so the driveway the level the plow. That compensates for the right wheel being in the furrow. Then tweek it as you use it. Bob
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 6:26pm
I want to thank everyone for their responses and help on this.
I moved the toplink down to the middle hole of the 3 available on the D17IV, and what a difference! I could get the rear bottom to be level with the first, and once I got a few rounds in, could get the side-to-side adjusted with the winging screws.
I would never imagine that only about a 1" change in the height of the connection of the toplink could make so much difference in the plow performance. I guess I was always spoiled by the Snap Coupler already being pretty much set up correctly.
I still don't like these plows very much. As Lonn mentioned, once I got the plows properly scoured and polished, I was running in high second without a problem. The real problem I ran into was that this was hilltop land (in upstate NY) so I ran into submerged ledges and huges rocks. I snagged many, and had to reset the tripped bottoms numerous times, until I finally snapped the point off a share and had to stop. In this field, the deeper penetration of a 16" bottom worked against me. On the bright side, this is the last time this field will ever be plowed. I am putting in buckwheat/sorghum as a deep penetrating cover, and after that, will start bring the land up to clover and others, in preparation for an orchard on the site.
Anyway, my thanks to everyone for their help and advice.
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