hd 5
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144622
Printed Date: 04 May 2024 at 6:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: hd 5
Posted By: shanksmare
Subject: hd 5
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 10:45am
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Well my left side steering clutch is still stuck after sitting a couple years , per info I washed the compartment out and now I guess I"ll pull it in the shop and start in, this is my first time removing one and I'm assuming If I get it out I can take it apart and if not worn out can just free it up, any helpful comments are appreciated , thanks Ron.
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Replies:
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 3:52pm
can you elaborate on what you have done? did you try using the machine with the lever pulled? how did you wash it?
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 12:16pm
We rebuilt the clutch compartments on our HD-5. The fiber discs used in the clutch packs absorb moisture and creates a situation where the metal discs rust into the brake drum/clutch housing. These were so bad that the drum had to be cut out with a reciprocating saw. Get rid of the fiber and replace with bi-metal discs. That should prevent it from seizing again. You will need to add discs as the bi-metal are thinner than the fiber. The service manual explains it very well.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,(2) 620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity lawn tractors.
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 3:21pm
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Well I pulled the inspection cover off and the rubber grommet on the steering clutch lever was pulled back and the chamber looked to be full of a rats nest or something, I vacuumed it all out and put a plug in the bottom and put a few gallons of solvent in it and ran it for a while back and forth and then drained it and let it dry out. I then ran it around the pasture with the lever pulled back and turned a bunch forward and back and its still stuck. I pulled it in the shop and am getting ready to pull the fuel tank and battery box and see if I can pull the clutch out per service book.
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 5:30pm
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Dont forget to loosed the support bolt under stering cluch housing and remove the 2 big plugs rear the sprocket on side stering cluch housing for remove the 2 pines from the brake band and bracket
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:10am
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I slide hammer works great for removing them pins - you can make one up using a long piece of threaded rod or other such - The next problem is the hope the discs have not swelled so as to not allow room to lift out the brake - clutch drum without damage to anything including itself.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:14am
There are several steering clutch posts on this forum. My post
"Like I Need Another Project" is on page 3 of this forum. There are pictures of my ongoing HD5 project. If you have another brake drum available it is easiest to cut the drum to get the steering clutch assembly out. I did not have another drum so the project took much longer.
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 4:46pm
In addition to the discs being rusted to the drums, we found that the large roller bearings which are the bearings which the steering clutch uses to exert pressure on the clutch pack were destroyed. Bearing races were split and balls missing from the bearing cages. The older tractors used a wick system to lubricate these bearings. It apparently was marginal at best because it was replaced with a grease hose attached to the access plate with a grease fitting. With a machine as old as these things are there will be surprises once you dig into it. We fixed everything in each compartment and the tractor steers and works like a charm. It is an HD-5B with a transplanted 3-71 Detroit which converts diesel fuel to noise. Thankful I found a new old Stock Nelson muffler for it.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,(2) 620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity lawn tractors.
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 11:01am
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Now my next question is I'm having a problem getting the cap screws loose on both sides of the clutch. with not much room to work what does everyone use to get a socket or something to fit down in the compartment to get a good hold of and turn out these bolts?
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 11:09am
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Home made long reach boxed end wrench for leverage and size dimensions.
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Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 11:15am
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If you are talking about the steering clutch bolts I use the box end of a combination wrench. I tie a string to it because if you drop it into the steering clutch compartment it is gone until you get the clutch pack out.
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 1:09pm
We used a Williams 1224TSB, which is the 3/4" tubular handle wrench, made for high torque applications. You will have to make sure you have the tractor jacked or able to roll it to get at all of the bolts. It will have to move about two feet fore and aft.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,(2) 620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity lawn tractors.
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 1:22pm
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Dont forget you need to removed 1 bolt left side and 1 bolt right side until they all removed
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Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 4:27pm
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I started a "steering clutch project" on my HD5G about 3 years ago. Still isn't done. It's been a "One step forward and two steps backwards" type project. Maybe I should sell you all of my new parts, and abort the mission. Darrel
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 5:27pm
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I am still have a small parts inventory and in FEBRUARY I will have 74 years it will be easy to closed my place next year.
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 12:29pm
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Well I finally got my Williams box end wrench and am getting the clutch bolts loose. Now the brake band bolt that you thread the 5/16 rod in is froze solid. The brake lining looks ok but is I can't get that pin out how will I lift the clutch up and out of there, I sure its heavy as hell?
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 1:01pm
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The pine in band could be worn and have a grove on and maybe you have to play with the brake band or the fork and pull the pine in same time
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Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 3:14pm
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I have posted again to "Steering Clutches Again" If you can not get the bell crank pins out then remove the (4) bolts that hold the bell crank bracket. You will have to remove the rear brake band pin and swing the upper part of the brake band up to gain access to the bracket bolts.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 4:55pm
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the pins have a area where the band ends kind of index into - that along with the fact they get rusty and seize - special words are used while trying to remove them - these are like a magic chant you will use often in many situations while working on older machines . Exorcism might also work but in most cases slow and steady thinking of WHY will give results. On one machine i found a saws all solved the problem of pin removal - I just had to make new ones from SS stock I had to replace the 3 pieces left by the saw .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 5:38pm
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Ya I was lookin at that. I figured I may be able to get the 4 bracket bolts out and then use the brake band to pull the steering clutch straight up and out, and other thing I found today that some had added several long cap screws when they last had that clutch out so that was fun but got them all out today thanks to that handy Williams wrench someone told me about.The right compartment looks brand new inside compared to the left, next thing will be to find a new brake rod rubber boot, that's obviously where the mice gained entrance to the compartment .
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 9:29am
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Watch the length of the bolts - I had one pressure plate collapse as someone had put wrong bolts in and they ate into plate causing it to collapse (bend where worn) creating a clutch that would not release - each side of drum uses a different length bolt to be secured.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 9:45am
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Your next challenge is pushing the clutch pack into the drum. You need to move it 1/4" to get clearance to get the assembly out.
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 4:17pm
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so whats the best way to push the clutch plate in, I don't have any porta power?
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Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 5:16pm
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Like Coke-in-min said: Special words are like magic. On my HD5B project I found words that actually remove rust and start small fires on the equipment.
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Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 5:38pm
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Hahaha,,, well said oh wise one!
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Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 9:01am
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Got to be careful about blistering the paint too. LOL
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Posted By: shanksmare
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 2:39pm
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Well, I've used a lot of words that I cant write here but I managed to get all the bolts out of the steering clutch and got the 4 bolts out of the brake bracket being the pins wouldn't come out of the brake band mount so the clutch still seems pretty solid still, keep in mine there is some rust in the compartment and I've seen much worse in other posts. the clutch lever does move the yoke just a little so its free, but if I need to push on something else, keep in mind this is my first time and I don't hardly know what I'm looking at.
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Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 6:19pm
the clutch needs to go into the drum about 1/2", it should not be sticking out of the drum at all. most likely the fiber discs are rusted fast to the drum from the mice peeing in the center of the drum. if you cannot get the clutch pack to go into the drum you will need a portapower to push it in and even then no guarantees. I have had to cut the drums apart to get them out. instead of the rubber boots I made a pipe and washer arrangement to stop the mice from getting in. they will chew right through the boots again. check the posts here I put pics on somewhere. I will try to find them again and post.
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HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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