Power steering for B, C and CA's
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=136545
Printed Date: 06 May 2024 at 12:17am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Power steering for B, C and CA's
Posted By: davh
Subject: Power steering for B, C and CA's
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 6:55am
| A few days ago there was some discussion on electric power steering units and if they would work on not. Is there anyone who has been able to add a power steering unit of any kind to the B's, C's or CA's? Have a loader tractor that would be great if it was easier to steer. Appreciate any thoughts. |
Replies:
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 8:05am
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Or 720, D-10 series III. Or any model. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:07am
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Way back in the early days of the forum, someone put the torque generator in the tool box to help keep the original appearance. I saw model B with the whole steering box replaced with one from a car, that had power steering built into it. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:14am
| I've seen on C with power steering it had a GM steering box where the gemmer box used to be/ with a power steering pump below the generator. it look kinda cobbled and I didnt take any pictures. I dont beleave a electric powersteering would work. the F150's coulnd have a snowplow mounted the extra force and constant movement burned them up. at least thats what the plow site guys told me. A tourque generator in the shaft would work but then your putting the extra torque through a fairly weak gear box. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:22am
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If you can find an old Cub Cadet,or Simplicity with hydrostatic steering you could use the steering motor and cylinder and mount an old style Ford PS pump to run off the crank pulley or get real lucky and find a generator with the PS pump on a D17 diesel or D15 diesel. |
Posted By: davh
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:40am
| I have looked at the Cub Cadet power steering units and they seem to be availbable. Might try and go that route. Didn't know if they were powerful enough but bet it would be better than what I have now. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:03am
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Very interesting subject for lots of folks with different tractors and not only AC's. I looked into the electric PS units for my D14 and after visiting with several of the members of a F150 Forum,,,decided that was not a good option as Ford still has not perfected them to be completely reliable and the cost is still very high. I have one of the generator/power steering units from a 1955 Chevy that I considered trying but did not really want to give up the alternator I already had installed on the tractor. I think a power steering gear box out of a mid 80's trk mounted on the frame and a new drag link tied to the existing AC steering arm "might" do the trick,,AFTER you disable the internal gear rack,,,,???? Maybe something to add to my never ending list of things to do around here,,,,,  We need somebody like ole CoggenObrien or Dave Kamp to undertake a project for all us AC lovers that sorely need a solution to these weak PS units,,,,,,  |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:13am
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There are a few things that could make the steering easier without adding power steering. Change the front tires from one or three rib to a smoother turf or highway tire so they don't stick in slots in the ground. Making turning the steering wheel easier will probably make turning the tractor on turf and in worked ground poorer. Turn the steering wheel only while rolling, not while stopped. Shorten the steering arm on the gear box but keep the others the same length. That will reduce the maximum steering angle but reduce the torque required. Add an inline gear box between the steering wheel and the steering gear box. That will reduce the torque at the steering wheel but take more turns of the steering wheel to make any turn. At an extreme, take the gear box apart and remove the gears. Have a machine shop cut new ones with a finer pitch worm and more teeth on the worm gear to give the effect of the inline gearbox without it showing. Not every machine shop is capable or willing to cut custom gears because its a tedious task. I know that from having cut gears. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Ross D.
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:47am
Is this not the neatest, best designed and most practical system? Ross. 500 x 375  
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Posted By: davh
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:57am
| thoughts on what unit or vehicle that is off of? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 11:24am
I bought a non running C with that setup! I took it all off when I tore it down to rebuild. Not sure how well it worked when the tractor was running.
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Dakota Dave wrote:Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 12:49pm
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We had a C that had a bad steering box, I replaced it with one out of a '56 Ford car. Took more turns of the wheel to turn but worked good. This was back in the 1960's. I regret selling that tractor, wish I could find it.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 12:51pm
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It is possible to use a charlynn torque generator as used on the WD. I used a sweet steering valve from a dirt track car on a forklift in a similar manner. The weak gearbox could be a problem though. Another method would be to use a valve like on some older cars and trucks that replace the drag link end along with an external cylinder. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 2:58pm
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I think the 800 series Ford tractors used what Joe described ------------- WD45 Diesel, RC,CA,IB, B, G, 616, Early B-10, D-10, Terra Tiger, 95G spreader, SC blade |
Posted By: davh
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 3:00pm
| going to check with my favorite salvage boys and check out more on the (looks like GM) unit. Need to do some measuring and make sure I can mount the pump, by looking at it, it may conflict with the loader. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 5:59pm
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Check out farm show magazine's archive, there's plenty that have built them. I built one on a chinese rhino tractor, years ago. You need a pump off'n a a car, and the drag link cyl from an early ford torino. You cut and weld the cyl and valve, into the steering arm. The way it works, is you apply pressure from the hand wheel, to the valve on the cyl, it activates the cyl to extend or retract, depending on the direction, of the hand applied pressure, no orbit motor needed. I had 40 hrs of time in that system, for that chinese bastard, every bolt in it was a grade too soft and a size too small...
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Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 6:11pm
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I think the pump would be your biggest hangup finding a good way to mount it so that it didn't look terrible. I've seen eaton torque Generator's with a stub shaft at each end used on stand up electric forklifts I always kind of wondered if the steering box of a B would hold up at one of those was put in line between the steering wheel and the steering box. That's kind of the way the forklift use them the steering wheel went through the torque generator and down to a small gear the turn to figure on the single drive and steer wheel just not sure if the B box would take the extra imput torque. ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 8:35pm
Actually The 801 series had the PS valve in the gearbox. The 901 series had an external valve on the drag link. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:22pm
do all steering boxes turn the same direction ?? Car vs tractor ... The B and C gear boxes are not same direction.. How do you know what is standard ? The box in this picture might fit inside the tool box... anyone know what it is ? How about the 56 FORD car box , was the INSIDE or OUTSIDE mount ? ......... I have torn up 2-3 boxes on the "B" using a loader or heavy front end... That one PIN is not substantial... maybe a set of gears would be better.
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 12:07pm
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Well,,now,,that right there is a nice installation,,,I don't recognize the steering box but the pump appears to be a GM style. Think I would have mounted the pump some lower to keep more tension on the alternator pulley from slipping.,,but maybe it's OK,,??? |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 5:13am
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Update to old post. The p/s steering box, mount plate, and Saginaw p/s pump are off a 1978 Dodge 1/2 ton 4x4. |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 6:54am
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Adding P/S to a CA with a loader will be asking for trouble. If you are picking up enough weight make it hard to steer, that should tell you that you are overloading the tractors components. Add P/S and you will be breaking spindles and wonder why. Although Allis made a loader for a CA, the CA tractor is not really built to handle the added stress that a loader will put on the tractor. The steering box is only a slight upgrade for what a B or C had and the spindles are the same size. Looks like a good reason to get a better bigger loader tractor and save your CA for regular work. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Phil48ACWC
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 8:08am
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I put an EPS from a 2005 Saturn Vue in my street rod and love it. It has to be controlled by a stand alone controller to take the place of a Body Control Module (BCM) that was originally in the Saturn Vue. The controller is available from Ebay. Click on below: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284398607554?hash=item42377a5cc2:g:bysAAOSw~onhYvX2" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/284398607554?hash=item42377a5cc2:g:bysAAOSw~oNhYvX2 It all works great on a street car where the load on the EPS unit is not real heavy and not continuous. A tractor with FEL, I'm not sure.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 8:14am
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I found out the othe d ay, they have EPS on 'sleds' now........ ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 8:38am
| I bought a C at an auction that had a car powersteering rigged up. The head was off at the auction, so I took the whole tractor down into pieces and put it back together original without the rigged-up stuff. Looked like bad deal to me. I doubt it would hold up all that well to extrea strain a loader would put on it. If you get an old car with the front tire in a rut it will squell rather than twist the tire out of the rut. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 9:20am
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I thought about using a power assist cylinder from an early Nova or Corvette on my B to help aid in the steering department with the Henderson loader I have out front. Still kickin' that around yet, but that's not high on the "to do" list yet.... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 10:14am
| I took the loader off my CA its steers much easier without it. with a loader you never started steering until the tires were moving. Even for snow removal it didn't steer easy and snow is light. the front end on a CA is pretty light duty I could pick up a 5x6 bale with it but it really squatted the front tires.I have 2 WD45s with loaders for both and there much better than the CA for a loader. |