Help! Id17 2 point problem
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=135254
Printed Date: 07 May 2024 at 6:34pm
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Topic: Help! Id17 2 point problem
Posted By: Rockman31
Subject: Help! Id17 2 point problem
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 1:55pm
Hi I recently picked up a 1958 d17 with front pump and 500 series loader on it. All those things work well. But have run into a problem. I can't get the 2 point to lift or go down. When I push the lever to engage the hydraulics I can hear the pump kick in. But nothing happens. I can lift the arms up and down with my hand. It does have a separate remote running off the rear hydraulics. So I Even unhooked the hose and plugged it off to see if that would do anything. But it didn't. Also tried turning the knob underneath the hydraulics in and out doesn't help.fluids are all good to fill levels. Thanks 
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Replies:
Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 6:27pm
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Is your traction booster lever pulled down to the bottom position? It's the top lever across from the throttle that has the notches. The bottom lever that has 2 hole choices is the hydraulics that raises and lowers the arms. ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 6:28pm
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First check and keep an eye on the hyd fluid level, dipstick on right, under gas tank. Try this: lift the loader, all the way up. As it tops out, do the arms come up?
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Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 7:19pm
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DIY A 1958 would have a 400 Series loader with the Live Pump mounted in front of the Rad. The loader hydraulics would be completely separate from the rear lift arms. Gary |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 7:43pm
| I'm thinking it might be the internal hydraulic line or ram. |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 7:43pm
| On the side of the tractor it says series 3 o. The decals but serial number says otherwise |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 8:47pm
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Could somebody shrink the pictures so we can get a better look. The last tractor I sold was the D-17. As said above forget the front pump. It is my estimation that it works the loader only. The ones I sold did not have all the additional hydraulic hardware on the side. I would like to see how it is plumbed. Where does it get it's pressurized hydraulic oil? (1) from the front pump, or (2) from the internal hydraulic system Considering the unit may be 57 - 59 years old it does not look bad. Do you have a hydraulic pressure gauge? At least over 3500 PSI pressure reading. The crankshaft pump should have a reading of around 2200 PSI. The internal pump should have a reading of 3000 - 3500 PSI. That would be one way to see where the pressurized oil is coming from. With that confirmed we may be able to give you a better answer. Listen closely to the answer above that indicates you should use the levers on the right side of the steering wheel to raise and lower the lift arms. That is the original equipment lift arrangement. Good Luck! Bill Long
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 9:16pm
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Bill, Press the CRTL key and either scroll the wheel on your mouse or push the + or - keys to shrink and/or enlarge the image on the screen. ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 9:52pm
| It get gets its pressure from the internal pump. The front pump just runs the loader. I have the traction boost lever down and other lever locked up. |
Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 10:09pm
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Rockman, Unless I'm missing something somewhere, Both levers need to be down for the arms to go down and stay down. If the arms don't, then you'll need to look deeper. From my perception currently, you've got the loader hydraulics plumbed to the pump on the front, which is separate from the tractor hydraulics. Or should be. I haven't come across this issue on my D17, and it's an early '58 model. Made about March or so. ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 10:52pm
| I put lever up to try lift the 2 point but nothing happens. The pump is flowing but no go. |
Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 11:10pm
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I think that you might be looking at something deeper at this point as you pointed out earlier. ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 4:58am
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Ok, since you have separate pumps, I would say you either have a pump (check TB linkage, too) or cylinder problem. Could be a hose problem, too, if you are getting fluid transfer, from the hyd compartment, to the rear end compartment...
Make sure you have your foot off the clutch, and the hand clutch in neutral, when trying to lift or check the pump...
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Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 10:51am
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My guess is the seals are out in the lift cylinder if you can lift the arms easily by hand...or a blown hose inside. About the only way to check is to pull the rear housing. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 9:37pm
| Hopefully not to big of a job |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 9:13am
| A very poor job of adding a low-pressure 2-way valve. Where the black hose connects to the block to the LEFT of the seat, it should be a Pioneer connection, so you can unplug that black hose when wanting to use the lift arms. So, disconnect that black hose to the left of the seat and plug the block where the hose went. Then, up is up and clear down is down on the long/lift-lower lever to the left of the steering wheel. Traction Booster lever needs to be DOWN. |
Posted By: Rockman31
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:49pm
| I tried that also. No go |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:58pm
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Have you got a 2 way cylinder you could plug into the remote? If that won't operate the cylinder, you'll have to look further. It seems to me, if that 2 way add on is an open center valve, everything will be dumped back in the rearend and won't allow the lift arms to work. If it is closed center, the lift arms should work without disconnecting it.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:05pm
 Here ya go Bill. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:06pm
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So, is that block on the left, that the hose hooks to, a transport valve?
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Roscoe62
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 5:05am
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To check if the lift arm cylinder or internal hose is leaking: 1. Get the hydraulic and rear-end oil reservoirs to their proper level. Hydraulic is on the right side with the breather and dip-stick attached. Rear end is between your legs by the transmission shifter with a twist-cap and dip stick. 2. With tractor running and clutch engaged, Put lift arm lever all the way up (with TB lever all the way down) and wait 5 - 10 minutes. 3. Shut tractor down, and check the two oil levels. If the hydraulic reservoir has dropped, and the rear-end oil level raised, then either the internal hose or the lift cylinder seal is leaking. My bet is the hose burst if you have oil transferred to the rear-end. |