Unstyled WC paint scheme
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=134751
Printed Date: 27 Apr 2024 at 3:23am
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Topic: Unstyled WC paint scheme
Posted By: den/southern illinoi
Subject: Unstyled WC paint scheme
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 7:28pm
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One of my friends is doing his grandpas unstyled WC. He would like to get it as close to original as possible. I said mostly orange but said not really sure. He especially asked about the radiator and the rims. So can someone run down the paint scheme on an unstyled WC and what about the different styles of rear rims. Thanks, Den ------------- Own 5 720 garden tractors with associated equipment,1 620 garden tractor, 4 wheel 20 2-5015, 5020 and associated equipment and 2 electric forklifts. |
Replies:
Posted By: john0030
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 12:16am
Orange...  
------------- 51'WD |
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 8:22am
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It's personal preference. I prefer to see a WC painted all PO #1. Rims and radiator included. I'm not into polishing the brass on the radiator. I don't mind if someone paints the rear wheels black, but I think they look better orange. What my real pet peeve is when a "WC" decal is placed on the side of the radiator after the tractor is painted.
------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 12:03pm
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Orange, orange, orange, everything is orange to include carburator, starter, generator, steering wheel. When I started in this business 50 years ago there were original tractors around yet, they were all orange!!!!!! |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 2:39pm
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Does anyone know when they went from black spoke rims to orange? I like the orange better, but I've been told some spoke wheeled WC's were originally black rims? I pulled my WC out of the weeds with original tires on it, the rims were black...... ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 3:18pm
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I've got 2 brochures, one is original, the other is a copy. The original one is for a High-Speed combine (Earliest All-Crop) and all the WC's in the brochure are orange with black wheels. I also have an excellent reproduction of a early WC brochure and all the photos of it are orange with black wheels. They are real black and white photos, not "color added" like the above photo.
Bill, where are you??? We need YOU!!! I trust your word over anyone's, including mine. |
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 4:09pm
littlemarv, what brand of tires were on your WC when you got it out of the weeds???
------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
littlemarv wrote:Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 9:48pm
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I'm pretty sure the brand was Armstrong. http://s304.photobucket.com/user/rsommer1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151016_091258318_zpsgbhqximc.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 7:48am
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ALL SPOKE WHEELS WERE BLACK ...they were provided by French and Hecht. Allis bought them with tires already installed. The U, UC, WF, and WC tractor wheels were always black..until they went to cast centers. ANYTHING SPOKE WAS BLACK WHEN NEW. (very early WC were Green) P.O. #1 for entire remainder of tractor |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 8:56am
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OK, if F&H supplied the rims, how come there are spoke fronts that are 17" Allis rims, and 16" F&H rims? Not arguing or hijacking, just trying to get the rims figured out. Allis made front rims but not rears?? ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 9:36am
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Not for sure there, but no arguing the fact that all rear spokes and all 16" fronts are stamped F&H...so that ends that.. Its possible Allis thought it cheaper at the time to produce their own fronts then decided against? I don't know that answer...that would also explain why the 17" wheels show green underneath as well...just a theory, but Ill bet its right |
Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 11:10am
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As said above, lots of orange and then more orange, personally I like black spoke rims correct or not. ------------- Thanks Most Bad Government has grown out of Too Much Government- Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 11:23am
| Wasn't there a post a few weeks ago form a guy researching F&H weights and wheels? He had a pretty good write up about WC rims. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 11:28am
| Black is correct..new from factory. They were never orange when new. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 11:44am
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Found the thread http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132659&title=fred-wilke-1933-wc" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132659&title=fred-wilke-1933-wc |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 4:51pm
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We have two catalogs from AC in 1935 and 1937. Both show that tractors with rubber tires had black spoke wheels and steel wheel tractors were orange. As Old Orange Iron stated earlier, some early WC's had green wheels with rubber tires. I know of only one and it is not to far away from me and not for sale. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 6:42pm
x2
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Posted By: ctbowles 58
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 8:05pm
| they went from black to orange wheels in mid 1936 |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 11:20pm
| The '37s had dish rear wheels, and they were orange I'm pretty sure. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2017 at 5:14am
| As Creston stated I believe, the switch happened when the cast centers appeared. ALL F&H SPOKES WERE BLACK. with the exception of the green early wheels...Orange became standard at the onset of cast and pressed steel centers. |
Posted By: Dan Hauter
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 9:24pm
Posted By: Dan Hauter
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 9:25pm
| Herschal Surrat in West Central Illinois sold an early WC last October at Aumann Auctions and the wheels were green. The auctioneer said they checked and the color was correct for that period. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2017 at 9:45am
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Gentlemen, Please remember that Allis-Chalmers made the WC as an ecenomical unit. That said, it means that Allis Chalmers Painted in the cheapest way. That meant that everyting was painted PO#1. However, in some instances when the rear wheels and tires were supplied by after market sources and since they were already sufficiently painted they were not re-painted. I doubt if you can find one today but I recall the new CA tractors that came through with the generator and starter painted orange. I asked and was told it was cheaper to paint them rather than make arrangements to have them remain the original color. Good Luck! Bill Long
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Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 1:46pm
The 17" front spoke wheels were also supplied by F&H and have the same hub casting number as the later 16" replacement wheels that were aftermarket supplied. HC111 is the casting number. All of the factory spoked wheels were made by F&H including the steel wheels.
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Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 2:05pm
| In regards to the wheel colors, F&H made wheels for almost every tractor manufacturer in the 1930's. They generally painted all of their wheels a dark green color in their factory. Some tractor companies would then paint over this base coat with their wheel color of choice. The author of Original Allis Chalmers when doing research for the book had the change order right in front of him from the Agco archives that showed Allis specifying after April of 1934 that all F&H wheels for rubber tires would be painted black instead of dark green. F&H also sold their wheels to aftermarket suppliers and these would have been dark green so if a farmer decided to buy a set of wheels from his local tire shop, that's the color they would have been. A vast majority of the WC rears that I have seen have black paint on them. |
Posted By: Randy MN
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 9:39pm
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I have a copy of the drawings for the "Pneumatic Rear Wheel for 'W' Tractor" U2069 from Allis Chalmers Manufacturing Co. The drawings also have notations of changes in design and color changes initialed by an AC employee. The print is a little distorted, but a friend of mine enlarged it and here is what is noted. The drawing is of the spoked 11.25 x 24 air tires. First note is "Wheel Enameled Black" which looks like 2-9-33 initialed by W.F.S., revised on 12-29-33. On 1-25-34 "Enamel Color was Persian Orange" initialed by L.K. Then on 4-16-34 "Color was Olive Green CHG'D DRG to conform to F&H DWG" initialed by W.F.S. Then what looks to be the same date- "Note- color to be approved by A.C. removed. So it would seem that the 1933 Waukesha's through 1-25-34 were enameled black by Allis Chalmers. Then from 1-25-34 Persian Orange was the color from then on. On 4-16-34 Olive Green was suggested but never approved. It looks like F&H had black and green for those who went from steel to rubber. I have 2 untouched black and white photos of WC's serial # 510 or lower (hinged gas caps) that clearly have the 24" rears and the 17" fronts painted orange. Also page 46 of Norm's book has an early 34 with orange wheels. That being said, there seems to be more photos of WC's with black wheels. Bottom line in my opinion is to paint your wheels what you like most. ------------- 34 WC #477, 38 B #1935, 1-116 on steel, #8 7ft dbl action disc, #9 5ft dbl action disc, 295 Chainsaw |
Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 10:05pm
| Is there any change to the hub characteristics on that drawing Randy? There seems to be a change from the very early tractors with an HC46 hub to an HC46A hub that accommodates the inner wheel weight on the back side. I would be interested in any other info on the drawing. |
Posted By: Randy MN
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 6:21pm
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I am not able to load this drawing onto the forum ecclap, but if you PM me with your address I can send you a copy.
------------- 34 WC #477, 38 B #1935, 1-116 on steel, #8 7ft dbl action disc, #9 5ft dbl action disc, 295 Chainsaw |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 7:59pm
The 1938 WC Brochure still shows them with black rims: ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: tractorchuckie
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 11:21am
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Great topic I'm looking to redo our WC, it's a 1937 with F&H spokes in the rear and rims in the front. It was restore originally in the early seventies and refreshed in the early 2000 before I bought it the colour of the rims is a hot topic between the wife and I thxchuck ------------- still looking for the holy grail of Allis |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 11:51am
If the "color enhanced" photo is correct, they also had a black hand crank, radiator, and steering wheel grip. Not saying it's wrong, but I've never seen one like that.
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Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 12:33pm
Fair enough, but all the other pics in the brochure show black as well: download the complete brochure: http://www.mediafire.com/file/h5t56pq3m0z2fgi/1938wc.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.mediafire.com/file/h5t56pq3m0z2fgi/1938wc.pdf EDIT: 37 was still black judging by the mecum auction original paint wc:  ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 1:51pm
Just trying to digest the information and figure out what to believe....in the first pic, the wheels and fender are the same shade of gray, leading me to believe they are the same color? Anyone else have this feeling? I agree, it kinda looks black, but so does the fender, steering column, etc. In the 2nd photo....I thought the 37s came with dish rims on the rear, like in the first pic, not spokes like the earlier ones. Again, I'm not arguing or being disrespectful, I'm just trying to weigh things out and interpret them the best I can.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 2:19pm
They were NOT ALL black. Some were green and most were black from F&H. However, Allis painted spoke rims Orange, at least some of them. When I got my 35 WC from the neighbor, who was the original owner, I found orange paint on the inside of the rear wheel hubs. The tractor had NEVER been repainted. Some tractors came from the DEALER with black spoke wheels because Black was the color F&H painted them. Tractors from West Allis were painted Orange. If a dealer had a steel wheeled tractor on the lot and a buyer wanted rubber tires, the F&H rims could have been shipped to the dealer from F&H and be Black. I would venture to say any change of wheels at the dealer would have put Black rims on the tractor. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 11:01pm
Maybe some rims from West Allis were orange, (heck I've seen pictures of the early styled WC's with black rims) (I also have one of the WC's that had the green rims....) but I'm guessing most unstyleds were black. Here's an old ad with a pic of 48 WC's being driven from the factory and the rims are black.  ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 11:15pm
Yeah after I posted that pic I figured out it wasn't the best one to use.... ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:19am
| All untouched, unstyled WC tractors used black.(with the exception of early GREEN wheeled tractors) Orange would have been ordered replacement stock that the DEALER painted to upgrade a steel wheeled tractor. Assembly line tractors were BLACK wheels, provided by F&H. In the case of Charlie Tuckers tractor, I would assume the orange he found on the back of the hub was due to installing a BLACK wheel on wet ORANGE paint at the factory!! |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 9:38am
NOPE, the whole inside of the hub was Orange, even places where it could not have touched anything. When I cleaned it up, there was evidence of Black underneath which would have been original F&H paint. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:11am
Here's a picture of an original 17" WC front with remnants of F&H green. |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:05pm
Hard to see in my pic but mine matches that one, my serial number is 970: ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 2:10pm
Nice picture. Is that the typical HC111 hub?
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Posted By: AndrewGubbels
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 6:39am
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Hello guys this is a very good post I have learned alot! My dad brothers and I really search hard for nice clean original tractors and have seen the wc's a few different ways. We have a 37 with the pressed steel and they seem to be black along with the front 6 bolt rims or round spokes. They have been black on most tractors. We do have a very clean original 37 and it has the smaller steering wheel like they had and it is all orange. We also have a 38 model with cast centers and they are orange with galvanized rims and it has black 6 bolt rs in the front. I will see if I can post a photo of our 37 and 38. Not sure if this helps but I know that these haven't had any paint! Great post Andy     ------------- Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration |
Posted By: AndrewGubbels
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 6:54am
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Here is a one my brother james had and it had 28 inch rear spokes. And the big hub 5 bolt fronts. The fronts were very rusty but I do believe they had black paint but so hard to tell there was literally no paint it seemed left on them. I do know I have seen some 5 bolt hubs on an original 37 wc and they were orange. Andy  ------------- Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration |
Posted By: jpessek
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 12:18pm
Yep HC111, I definatly need to have them re rimmed though, what's a good place to have that done?  ------------- www.allischalmersarchive.com Your Source Of Free Vintage Allis Chalmers Brochures Available For Downloading |
Posted By: ecclap
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 1:11pm
| Contact Detwilers in Wisconsin. If you are on Facebook, Pat Detwiler is the guy that does the wheel repair or I can find his email address for you. Last time I looked into it, the 17" fronts were a little pricey to repair because Coker tire is the only place to buy rim blanks in that size. Pat Detwiler can make the wheels look just like they came from the factory. He can even take ones that have been cutdown to 16" back to the correct 17" rims. |
Posted By: Kyle(MN)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 9:05pm
 Picture from the day my Grandpa brought home a new WC and combine in July of 1938. To me, its clear the rims are black, with orange bolts.
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