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Original B seat material?

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sbarker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 5:51pm
Hi,  I have a model B that I am restoring, with a fabric seat.  It is the only one I've ever seen with a fabric seat.  Is this original and would it significantly add to the value?  Thanks,  Steve
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 6:07pm
I believe the originals had green canvas material over the wire frame of the coil springs. They may also have had horse hair stuffing??? I don't know if it would add significantly to the value. It would be a nice touch though.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 04 Sep 2011 at 6:08pm
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 6:13pm
I found  Albany foam has horse hair. Kinda pricey. http://albanyfoam.com/images/Page_21.pdf
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 6:56pm
Shoot, I better save all of the hair from our two mares when they start shedding here soon! Brush brush brush...
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gusndemboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 7:01pm
Currently restoring my grandpaws 1942 model B which had a burlap sack for a seat cover when I got it. My dad says he rembered a canvas seat with stripes as a kid. All I can find is the black cushion, not that Im close too needing a seat. Lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 8:00pm
I have one of the original seats, but it needs a new cover. I would like to find an original padded seat back in recognizable condition. I found pictures that are shown in a previous post, now to find an example to copy......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 9:38pm
I just sent a OD Green Heavy Cotton Duck Canvas seat cover to the Netherlands. Man over there has a 51B with a Black Vinyl  seat cushion and wanted a more 50s looking seat.
    These Black Vinyl Reproduction seat cushions  remind me of the country and western song. "Don't give me no plastic saddle. I want to feel the leather when I ride"
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbarker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2011 at 10:09pm
Here's some photos of mine.  It is stained and worn.  Hope it helps.

Edited by sbarker - 04 Sep 2011 at 10:13pm
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mdtractormechanic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdtractormechanic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 9:28am
sbaker...do you have a side and bottom view? My 50 C came with the remains of a canvas seat. Springs and bottom are good. I am going to try to reupholster it. Thanks

Edited by mdtractormechanic - 05 Sep 2011 at 9:35am
Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbarker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 6:34pm
Here is the bottom of the seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbarker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 6:36pm
Here is the side of the seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 7:56pm
Now all we have to figure out is. Is this in fact a true example of a original seat. Or.  Is it a old one that has been recovered . 
A little recent info on the early B seat shows it not to be a perfect rectangle/square. Factory drawings show it to be taller in the front and tapering to shorter in the back. These early ones has SSS springs as a foundation running front to back with padding and a canvas covering.
The later B/C seats had coil springs clipped together like a mattress with padding and a canvas cover.
Any canvas upolstry covering even if it is just over a black vinyl foam filled modern reproduction would be more  authentic in appearance than yuck black vinyl.
   The ones I have sewn up have the pipeing welt on the seam. Seems to be what I remember as a little Kid. It shows up pretty well in the above photos.
    I 'm not real shur about the black coaster corners. They would sorta hard to reproduce if thats original equipment.
   I shur as heck don't remember any striped seat canvas. I do remember a burlap tater sack wraped around the metal seat back and held there with binder twine though.
   If your as old as Me you would remember nothing about seeing any black vinyl seats in Allis dealer showrooms. My favorite AC dealer was Yonker Implement on the south east corner of Rts 6&7 in Orland Township Illinois. 159th and Wolf Road wasn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waynem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 8:19pm
I like the fabric and think I will redo mine with it. I do like the green duck cloth.
1939 Model B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 8:32pm
Alright, lemme weigh in on this one too....You guys sparked my interest.
 
I bought this C this past summer, and wondered about this seat. It is a spring coil seat, with padding under the seat upholstery. I really believe now, after seeing other photos that this could be the original seat. I know it does not look exactly like the other seat in the pictures above, but dang, its got 2 of the same original corner tabs on the bottom (See pictures). Also, 2 moisture holes in the plywood. The color is a tan color, but hey, I am sure they could have changed over the years???
 
BTW....Everything on this C tractor is very original, other than its been painted once. But the water temp gauge, amp gauge, oil pressure gauge, all WORK and are very readable...
 
You guys tell me, think this seat is original, or not??
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
You can see the thin padding, under the torn cover in the above photo. The padding is right on top of the coil springs.
 
 
Good picture of the corner tab...
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2011 at 9:45pm
I vividly remember the seat on a brand new B in either 1953 or 54 having a silverish covering.  I assume it was canvas but I was only 5 or 6 so I MIGHT be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 9:39am
We had a C that dad bought used from local AC dealer, mid to late 50's. It had a like new, could have been new, seat. It was olive drab canvas. 

Dusty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdtractormechanic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Ken in Texas Ken in Texas wrote:

Now all we have to figure out is. Is this in fact a true example of a original seat. Or.  Is it a old one that has been recovered . 
When I got my 1950 C it had the remains of the original canvas seat on it. (I bought this machine from the family that got it new so the history was easy to follow) I looked at it today and found the seams on the canvas (without a welt), the holes in the bottom board with the staples and the corner cleats match sbaker's example above. Inside the seat and on top of the springs is a layer of straw like material topped with a layer of cotton matting. I know my example has not been reupholstered.

Edited by mdtractormechanic - 06 Sep 2011 at 12:57pm
Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waynem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 2:21pm
1939 Model B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thomas davison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 2:44pm
I remember our 42 B had a canvas covered seat (green).  They did not last long in hard use.  We must have replaced it at least twice in 10 years.  You will not like the canvass if you leave the tractor out and it rains.  Takes forever to dry the seat.  But, canvas is cooler that black plastic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mdtractormechanic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by thomas davison thomas davison wrote:

I remember our 42 B had a canvas covered seat (green).  They did not last long in hard use.  We must have replaced it at least twice in 10 years.  You will not like the canvass if you leave the tractor out and it rains.  Takes forever to dry the seat.  But, canvas is cooler that black plastic.
You could cover it in 'genuine imitation Naugahide', you know, pleather. The see thru slip covers. LOL

Edited by mdtractormechanic - 06 Sep 2011 at 6:38pm
Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daveingreenbay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2011 at 9:26pm
I have a `39 B  it had a worn canvas seat cover on it  and the metal corners and metal buttons on each corner with a small nail holding it on to the wood like the metal corners and button that Don in MI is showing on his seat.  The interesting thing is it has a cardboard tag with the part number on it stapled to the wood bottom.  Sorry, no picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 7:09am
Wow
    Lots of good stuff about what a ORIGINAL B/C seat cushion should look like. If two separate examples show the METAL corner fittings they are probably correct. A picture of the cardboard tag with the part number to make a copy would be cool.
    I notice some folded corners on pictured the covers. Some have them and some don't. The parts books show a seamed corner and no fold. If I was to make a guess the seat on the C has been recovered . The fabric itself looks different and the exposed double stitching is not what I remember. The way the grain of the fabric rolls down on the ends making a fold  necessary just don't look original.
     What we really need is a original padded seat back like those used only in 37 and 38.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 7:43am
I got what I think is the right HD OD Cotton Duck Canvas from Brett Phillips . He got it from McMaster-Carr.  Gary A ordered a 10 yard piece from them a year ago.  Got the same stuff.  Went to the M C web page today and can't find it listed now.  When I find my orriginal stock number I will call M C to see why it is not listed any longer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 10:57am

Here is link to some canvas sold by Mcmaster Carr:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8776k6/=dyk3hf
 
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 11:55am
Ken, that was kind of my guess too..... The springs and other components probably are original, but it could have been recovered at some point in time.
 
Still cool to think that the coil springs seats are original, I had no idea.
 
We have made reproduction seats in the past, just out of 5 inch foam padding, no coils.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 12:06pm
I've got some coil springs that might work well for a seat. Cheap.

Dusty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 2:34pm
Thanks Steve K
    Thats the McMaster-Carr page I tried to pull up this morning . What you show highlited is the very best top grade OD Green Cotton Duck I used. It will almost stand up by itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdtractormechanic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 4:58pm
Here is a look at the seams on what is left of the covering from my 1950 C. The metal cleat was missing on this corner.  
 
The padding has two layers. The bottom layer is tow, the fiber of the Flax plant (not horse hair) and the top is a cotton felt pad.o  
 
The two pics below show how the springs were connected to eachother. A spiral wire instead of cord. One staple fastens one spring to the bottom to keep them all aligned for covering.
 


Edited by mdtractormechanic - 08 Mar 2013 at 5:04pm
Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed in TX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 6:07pm
This was on my 41 B when I brought it home. The stuff that looks like horsehair might not be. They used to harvest spanish moss in the swamps and submerge it in ponds to decompose. What was left when they pulled it out was the wirey core. It was used almost exclusively in the early days of the auto industry. I have a hand crack moss gin in my garage they used to use to comb it out and remove twigs. I've been trying to find a museum to donate it to so I've done some research on the subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 7:16pm

Don, it looks like the 5th picture down of yours(the one with your hand in it) shows a large hole in the cover. I think what you refer to as padding may actually be the original canvas cover. MDtractormechanics pictures look original, and that canvas looks an awful lot like what I think I see under the brown cover on your seat. Could just be the light.

I have the original seat on my grandads 1950 C. It has been recovered with brown canvas duck material, and has had a tablecloth(yes, plastic-padded back tablecloth.LOL!) wrapped around the original padding under the recovering of canvas. I'm pretty sure he stripped off the original canvas, as I don't see it anywhere in that mess. I also don't think the corner coasters are there anymore. This tractor got used with mounted planters, and the fertilizer did some bad things. Tractor was also parked outside for 50 years(except the seat, he stored it on the porch), so father time and mother nature have done their worst.
I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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