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Need cam and carb help

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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need cam and carb help
    Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by ykfdf ykfdf wrote:

thats the kinda info i was looking for! thanks! if you do have a cam let me know if you want to get rid of it and how much
sent you a pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ykfdf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2013 at 8:18am
thats the kinda info i was looking for! thanks! if you do have a cam let me know if you want to get rid of it and how much


Edited by ykfdf - 10 Jan 2013 at 8:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

Can I get you 2 a room?
hey hes your boyfriend. Not interested in a triangle .

Edited by mlpankey - 21 Nov 2012 at 6:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 5:50pm
Can I get you 2 a room? Neither one of you know anything other than any easy answers from google or whatever search engine your puter uses.

Edited by wi50 - 21 Nov 2012 at 5:56pm
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 3:35pm
1.874 plate with a .61 corection factor around 248cfm i choose this number for a reason care to guess why. We are still under muflerboltz 226 pulling build post

Edited by mlpankey - 21 Nov 2012 at 4:12pm
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 2:48pm
You can admit that you don't have any way to flow test. You can't even tell us what a sharp edged orfice plate with a 1.28" diameter hole or 1sq in area would flow when calibrateing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 12:04pm
Dan Rawls can do it if Wi is scared and wanted a non tractor bias person to run the test. As for Dan Rawlings the only Rawlings I am familuar with makes footballs and baseballs.

Edited by mlpankey - 21 Nov 2012 at 12:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 9:52am
In another thread you admitted to paying Dan Rawlings $100 to flow test for you. $20 do do it and $80 do put up with you is what Dan claims.

Why consistantly lie to us? No wonder Marty doesn't trust you enough to take your money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 7:31am
No cause a bone stock head cant flow half the cfm number wi boasts.you know his indy head came with flow numbers that indy provides and they are repeatable in wi and in tn. The deal wwas if wi cfm numbers were not stretched when i tested i would send him his head and 200. If his numbers were untruthful wi would have to pay me for my time testing to get his head back. To date no head from wi has been shipped to shop for testing.so one can only assume that numbers where inflated.   

Edited by mlpankey - 21 Nov 2012 at 7:33am
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Rod B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 8:46pm
With that kind of math a bone stock 226 would make about 150 hp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

There was nothing said about any wet flow. But you offered $200 to see what he explains for free. Search the archives on ytmag for yourself.

Anyone with basic porting knowledge knows that air does not like to turn corners. The AC head has 2 sharp corners. The air WILL become detached. No wet flow adapter needed, common sense prevails here. Eliminate the corners and it's possiable to meet the flow potential of the valve. Usually the allis head is at the end of it's flow potential by .400" lift. I'd bet by re-shapeing the port like in the picture and paying attention to valve aproach and seat angles there's a lot of potential power hideing.

yeah some where around 300 hp if the cfm numbers he post are realistic but he doesnt want to send the head down for someone else to verify or deny his claims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 11:16am
There was nothing said about any wet flow. But you offered $200 to see what he explains for free. Search the archives on ytmag for yourself.

Anyone with basic porting knowledge knows that air does not like to turn corners. The AC head has 2 sharp corners. The air WILL become detached. No wet flow adapter needed, common sense prevails here. Eliminate the corners and it's possiable to meet the flow potential of the valve. Usually the allis head is at the end of it's flow potential by .400" lift. I'd bet by re-shapeing the port like in the picture and paying attention to valve aproach and seat angles there's a lot of potential power hideing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:37am
i never said it was impossible . i said the same as i did above this time as well. sometimes a increase in dry flow can be a hinderence in wet flow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 8:52pm
We're lucky that Marty is willing to share what it takes. I rember him posting how he made a lump port head similar to the inline chevy when pankey was crying that it was impossiable.

Those of us with experience know the first indicator of problems in a port is the sound that it makes. Something as simple as a piece of string can be verry usefull finding problem areas.

Posting old pictures of a tractor and skateing around the truth when asked where we can see it run in person is a bit like old men putting high school pictures on dateing sites now isn't it pank.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 3:48pm
Since the time of flow benches you get lump ports w ports and vane type ports and on a dry bench the increase in flow numbers from this can really show up. Wi said it can become detached makes me wonder if he has upgraded to wet flow technology without it the only realistic test is a tear down after engine has run to see where the carbon areas are in relation to the intake valve to know where fuel/air mixture has become unsuspended back to fuel and air .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 1:33pm
I try to keep some cams on hand, but it's hard to do as there's the drive gear difference, keyed or flanged.
 
Then there's the oil pump drive gear, 11 or 14 tooth. 
 
That makes for 3 core cams to start with.  Then the limetless combinations of other factors in the engine.  So for a guy to have cams on hand and supply, it takes a good "all around" grind.  It's never perfect for the application, but it's not to far off.  Lobe shape is just as important as any of the "magic numbers" for the grind.  If 2 cams from different master patterns have the same duration and lobe seperation numbers there's still a difference.
 
When I port a cylinder head, I cut holes in the top of the head on each side of the intake port between the head bolt studs and intake valve guides if you can picture.  Then I blast the heads clean inside and out and grind the casting flashing off around the intake port and valve bowls.
 
Now with the access holes I cut in top of the head and the water port through the top and bottom of the head, I can get that whole area clean and fill the area with a special filler I buy.  The exhaust ports are not a bad shape or size to start with, but the intakes in these things SUCK!  So I cut the sides of the port into a nice long sweeping radius into the valve bowl.  I roll the floor and short side radius off also.  Being filled, I don't have to worry about leaking water and depending on the application, sometimes I cut way into the filler through the port.
 
The port gets verry wide inside, to wide and you end up with a dead spot.  I drill a hole in the back of the port wall into the head bolt hole directly behind it and tap it.  I then can put a screw in it  for an anchor point and build a divider around it tapering out twards the manifold face of the head paying attention to keep the port volume correct for the engine application.
 
When I'm done I have a split port head for the most part.  With the original T shaped port, there is no way to get much air around the corner to one intake bowl or the other.  At that corner the flow becomes detached and makes a mess out of the flow pattern.
 
I'll share a picture of what I'm talking about as far as the split in the port.  The picture is not of an Allis head, but none the less it's a visual.  It's made in modeling board and is a prototype for another project I will not talk about.
 
 
 
 


Edited by wi50 - 07 Nov 2012 at 1:34pm
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 1:13pm
A little bit of advise is to put off the camshaft purchase until you have settled upon the rest of your build for next year. There are some pretty smart cookies in the cam business but they are only as smart as the info you give them. Every bit as important as the correct grind  is timing, some good info has been posted about that but ask the grinder too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mufflerboltz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 1:03pm
One last thing i forgot to mention, if i wanted to listen to an argument i would call my ex-wife and deal with her, but then again she would make more sense then all this nonsense in the end! Big smile
 Have a Good Day All
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mufflerboltz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 12:51pm
to be honest i cant even stand to read post from my own subject cuz it always goes back to these two bickering on the same topic they bickered about dozen of times! All im asking for is help and advise on how to make my tractor more competitive for next year! im not looking to stick thousands of dollars into it, all i want is to be around 60 hp! 
 I do appreciate the advise from some of you, and you know who you are, but please stop the nonsense, I just stupid reading it!
 So on to better subjects, yes wi50 i'd be interested in the rockers if there is an advantage to them, i do plan on running a better engine kit instead of the original internals i already have. i am also going to do a little port work and vale cutting. as far as a carb i learned alot about flow in different sizes where bigger is not always better! Now im on the search for a good cam!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 6:51am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Well i was watching this post through the active user and see ole rod had read it but had no reply before going offline status. I guess i had given him to much credit in the intellegence department.



Not to kick dead horses but I've had a lingering questiin. Why would you post this?

Is it to elevate your internet stalker status to something higher like a "serial stalker"???? Or simply from arrogance and ignorance?

Please don't reply we really don't need to know the answer as....... I'm just pokeing fun so others have something to laugh at this fine morning.
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D21Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 6:27pm
Dr. Allis we do not pull with any organization, between work and life in general I rarely have the time to make the drive and compete with any of the clubs in our area. We may attend some of the closer to home brush-fair pulls a year and some fun pulls at tractor shows. The governor does control the speed at around 2200, i would like to speed things up but need to spend some money on a steel flywheel and beef up the bottom end first. Most of the time i try to get in a mph class under 5000 or if a open class was available for under 4500. We have a barney cam to install but have not done so yet, maybe this winter if i dont spend all my free time working on others projects. Figured the long runners would help with torque besides the factory manifold design looks hideous from a airflow standpoint. The individual pipes merge into a 3" collector, we put a 5" pipe over the outside just to keep people from being nosy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 9:08am
well that's neat D21puller.
 
I left something out of my first post in this thread to see what would happen.  So now our resident experts will think of this and start agreeing with me and post more to feel important.  So far no one has mentioned one of the most basic modifications for Mufflerboltz's cam and carb help.
 
A set of high ratio rocker arms will trick your engine into thinking your cam is a little bigger than it actually is.... sort of anyway.  A little more advanced, and retarded valve action because of the incerase in ratio and also a little faster valve action which is in general a good thing.  $400 and a call to Murphys Motor Service buys a set.
 
But if you are on the cheap and handy, like doing things yourself.  IH 6 cyl diesel engines like the 806-1206 tractors IH 361 and 407 engines have a rocker arm that is really close to the Allis one.  The Allis is a 1.45 ratio and the IH is 1.65 ratio.  All give or take depending on how far off they are from the next one you measure. 
 
I've put the IH ones on an Allis years ago.  I'm sorry if I don't rember exactly what I had to do though, weather it was hone the rockers a couple thou or hone the Allis stands and use the IH shaft.  I know I slotted the push rod holes in the head.  It was a verry long time ago.  After I broke enough at high RPM I made a billet setup back in the day.
 
I might just have some IH ones in my pail of rocker arms if it intrests you mufflerboltz, they're free if they're here.


Edited by wi50 - 06 Nov 2012 at 9:10am
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 6:55am
2 is always better than one . lets you tune air/fuel for a pair of cylinders instead of four .  Have you noticed no 3 not running as lean with the pair as it does typicaly with a single?  kinda got a crhrysler cross ram look or chevy dz302

Edited by mlpankey - 06 Nov 2012 at 7:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 5:34am
What organization? or what class?? Open RPM's? or governor control??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D21Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 8:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D21Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 8:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D21Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 7:56pm
Sorry that the pics are so obnoxiously large; new to adding pictures to posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D21Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 7:49pm
Heres some pics of the intake and header we built last summer. It's in a WC unstyled, not really sure of the power gain or losses from oe style manifold and carb. both carbs are from a wd. Intake runners are 19.5 inches long and designed to accomodate the larger marvel carb if more airflow is needed in the future. 3/8 plate bolted to the head, ordered a build it yourself sb chevy header kit from summit plus a few extra bent pipes and used some pieces left over from a custom header build job on my racing ranger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Idle circut needs to be opened up, not restricted.

Experience is your friend when posting.
on a small carb but on a too large carb restricted. need to read . plus one with a pump shot helps also.

Edited by mlpankey - 04 Nov 2012 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 1:39pm
Idle circut needs to be opened up, not restricted.

Experience is your friend when posting.
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