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Hd11b

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7060 View Drop Down
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Points: 1142
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    Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 12:06pm
I'm looking at a hd11b, is there anything to look out for? I understand the rails and sprockets can be converted. Should I be afraid of the final drives? Can you still get parts to rebuild the powershift? He says the converter is slow to lockup sometimes? I've been around cats all my life, but always wanted an Allis too.
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:17pm
Hopefully Lazyts will chime in, I think he's well aquainted with 11Bs
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 6:17pm
This the high hood Older HD11B or the newer 11B?
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 10:00pm
11-B used Rockford torque converter, same as TD15C IH, and transmission is Twin Disc (I think) .  Some parts still available through Minnpar.  As far as torque is concerned, I would check to see if the driveshaft to the transmission is turning when the machine slips.  It seems pretty common on those for the transmission clutches to slip when the oil is cold.  Final drives use tapered roller bearings, which by their nature loosen up over time, other than that, quite robust, no worse than Cat or any thing else with bull gear final drives.  I've heard Cat guys call them "financial drives"Tongue.  If you are used to running Cat dozers, the Allis has a "sloppier" feel, because of the different torque converter design.
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 3:39pm
I think he said it does only do it when it's cold. Is this a problem, or a sign? I'm used to running newer cats (D6R) with a torque converter, pushing trees the converter will get hot. I'm planning on using it mainly as a finish grade machine. It is a later machine I believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 7:22pm
One good thing about the 11-B, it is a cool running machine- if your radiator is clean, you can work them hard.  The transmission on ours slips bad when cold, takes about 20 minutes to warm up to where you can spin the tracks, after that it pulls like crazy.  It can be a real pain, easy to get stuck when cold, or if you get stuck and it cools down, it's like pulling dead weight..
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve allis dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 6:15am
They go well if you let them get up to operating temp before heavy pushing [TUBE]JuheVOkK7OI[/TUBE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 4:38am
Would it be that they prefer thinner oil (the Rockford converter tractors)? Never noticed too much temperature related difference with my old Twin Disc converter EP. I think the Twin Discs had higher torque multiplication though. When winching, you could apply a pull that was impressive for a tractor of that size if you had good rope. I bent a 3 inch diameter shackel pin pulling a track hoe from a bog, using blocks and die swaged rope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 10:31pm
The older EPs were rated at 150 hp, while the later ones with the Rockford converter were only rated for 140, and the series B machines were a little heavier.   Those older ones were real power houses, unlike the early 16Dps which were under powered.   I had one of the older EPs, we couldn't do anything with it, got hot always, had a new rad in it too.  It also had a warped clutch in the transmission, maybe that was the problem...   The guy that I got it from had operated it since new, and had bought it from the original owner, who he had previously worked for, sounded like it had been running hot for a long long time, they mostly worked in the winter.   One old guy I know who had many 11s said you could never pull a breaking disc or plow with the old EPs, they always got hot.  
Another thing, with the older machines we don't have trans heat gauges, so we never really know how hot the converter is.  With the newer machines you see that heat rise in the converter, lights come on, etc- maybe sometimes ignorance is bliss?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 11:47am
Yep, had to regularly clean radiator when oil and fuel leaks around engine would begin to cause clogging. Would clean it every day in warm weather. I knew from that experience, the tractor would never handle heavy drawbar work with constant load. For that sort of work, a direct drive 11 would be the answer. Eliminate the torque converter, you eliminate the over heating problem. Was told the series B's had a bigger radiator than the EP's though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 8:04pm
Yeah, went from 32 to 34 inches, I think.  There were several "in field" retrofit radiators for the EP series, was obviously a problem AC was dealing with at the time.
I worked at a JD farm implement dealership, and one of the changes to the 9600 combine was a radiator spacing of 7.5 mm instead of 5mm on the earlier models.  It was a night and day difference- any trash that came through the screen would go on through the radiator and it wouldn't plug.  The 5mm ones (fin spacing) would plug and the machine would overheat.  The push fan on a dozer also tends to bend over the fins which reduces the efficiency..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 5:09pm
What were the differences between the earlier direct drive hd11 and the 11b? Final drives, engine, differential, steering clutches?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 5:15pm
" The push fan on a dozer also tends to bend over the fins which reduces the efficiency.."

Seems to get worse as dust blasting thins the fin edges
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 9:52pm
The direct drive tractors with oil steering clutches were the same as the powershift models except for their trans. For each line of 11's with oil steer, the trans would be either oil engine clutch with 6 speed/3 speed constant mesh direct drive, or torque converter with powershift trans. The engines on the direct drives had slightly less horsepower. Same with the Series B 11's. From the beginning of oil steer, a number of changes were made, but they were made to both direct drive and powershift models all the way through to the end of production. The AG models differed only slightly, with lightweight nose cones and less track guarding.
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