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H4 won't move

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Monte View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 12:09am
I just traded for a h4 and it fired right up but nothing will move.It won't track and none of the hydraulics work.All fluids are good and full.The dozer has been sitting for 3+years.Any ideas where to start would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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JohnCO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 12:57am
If you are lucky, it could be as simple as the pumps having lost their prime.  I think I'd make sure there isn't water in the bottom of the sumps before doing anything drastic.  I'm sure you will get better advice then mine in the next day or two.
And welcome to the forum!
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Monte View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:40am
Thanks. I have a feeling that's the problem, but it will be this afternoon before I can get back down there to play with it so I thought I would ask for more educated advice in the meantime. I have never been around one of these and it was late so I thought I might have been overlooking a safety lever or something also. Is there something I could have overlooked?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 7:12am
The hydraulics are independent from the drive. tank on right side takes 30 weight oil and is driven by a hyd pump on the left front. you need to make sure it is in 1sr gear. push your lever forward on the left side by gas tank. (one that has a plate to hold it in neutral. you should hear your motor noise change. if you do then the its trying to move. if it doesn't the steering clutches could be froze from sitting that long. My feeling tells me you might not be in gear. one very important thing. there is plugs on each final drive housing. takes 1/2 in socket exender to to remove them. check them for proper oil levels first thing. sort of a weak point on that machine. I have an h4 , loader, gas myself. not a bad machine but does need to b taken care off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:49am
Under the floor plate on right side of machine is a hydraulic fill tube and dip stick for torque converter which supplies power to the 3 speed transmission - this is routed through a forward and reverse clutch pack ahead of transmission - from there power is routed through bevel gear to clutch drums and brake drum to a single reduction gear on axle shaft - from there to sprocket and track - fwd/rev is controlled by lever mounted on fuel tank side that also has throttle as part of quadrant. 
 Hydraulic power is supplied by separate pump that is engine driven, supply tank for it is located on right side by seat.Controls for attachments is mounted near - check for flow from pump could be no flow or no pressure .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 4:55pm
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm headed back to play with it some more now. I will post results later tonight.
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Monte View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:04pm
Where can I find the model number- serial numbers or information plate of any kind on this dozer. The man that owned it passed away and the guy I got it from doesn't know anymore about it than I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:38pm
The serial number is on the bar below the center of the grille facing up. Probably covered with dirt. Not a plate but stamped into the frame cross bar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:13pm
Thanks John. I appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 9:59pm
I have a dipstick in the floor pan in front of the seat.pretty sure this is transmission.Its full. I have a dipstick under the seat. I'm not sure what this is, but it is full. I thought this was the hydraulic fluid. I found it was out of hydraulic fluid. I feel stupid but I told y'all I would let y'all know what I found.lol. The hydraulics work fine. The transmission however, doesn't. I pulled one of the plugs on the drive housing.It looks like grease in it.what should be in it and can this be the problem? I tried it in all three gears and it would never change the sound of the engine much less try to move.It acts like it is in neutral.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randaleky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:16pm
Welcome to the forum. As Coke said, the levers on the fuel tank side are for engine throttle and one is for forward/reverse operation. If the transmission is in first gear and the forward or reverse lever is engaged and there is no change in the engine sound I would try to check the pressure to the shuttle valve operated by the lever. You will definitely need a repair manual to figure this out. pressure checks can be made on the valve with a gauge. this will let you know if the hydraulic pump operated by the engine is on air , damaged , or not puling the convertor fluid from the sump location. If there is the correct pressure listed in the book then the problem may be in the shuttle clutch. Most likely air in the pump at engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:31pm
The drive housings I put 80/90 wt oil in them. it is a sling type oil lubrication. oil gets on the lower gear and rides up to the top. The dip stick you have to remove the seat to get to is for your transmission/rear end. the one you check on the right side is your torgue converter. there is a guage on your panel that registers torgue converter oil pressure if it works or not. you will have to take the deck plate your feet sit on to get to the line where it fits onto the housing. you could take that out and see if you get oil pressure when you try to start it. not sure if theres a filter in there or not. I had that happen to me once but my problem was I forgot to put it in gear. if you don't hear the engine change at all then it sounds like maybe your converter is either in neutral. not working. or not in gear. I'm not real familiar with the converter so some else on here will have to give you better advice. If your hyd reservoir for you loader was empty then you have some leaks to repair. my controls were leaking but I took it off an put new O-rings in it so it doesn't leak at all now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:47pm
Torque converter level is checked with engine running -  as this drives the pump for the clutch pack which is controlled by that selector lever on left .
 Unless clutch pack is working there will be no drive force to transmission .
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:33pm
Thanks so much for all the advice. I don't think I have checked the fluid with it running. I was told today that the dozer was almost new when this man bought it in 74.it has only been used on the same farm this whole time.the hour meter says 125.5 hours. They said it was working perfectly when they parked it a few years ago.Its been setting under a shed the whole time.It does have a few leaks here and there so maybe it's low of transmission fluid but I didn't check it with it running. I will try to go back Thursday to work on it again. I will keep y'all posted. I appreciate all the help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 7:42am
Wow! 125 hours. ..? That's lie brand new. Can you post some pictures. Thank you, and good luck with it. Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:48am
It doesn't look brand new.lol. it's been painted, probably 20 years ago.it ain't pretty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 11:58am
OK, I got it out of the shed and brought it home.It has a LOT more hours than the meter shows lol. I still haven't got any drive. I checked the converter fluid level with it running and it was a little low. I put about 3 quarts in it. I tried it in all three gears.foward and reverse. I'm going to pull the floor pan right now and see if I can find the spot to check for pressure. I wasn't sure of the difference between H4 and hd4 when I started this post but this is a hd4. sorry for the confusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 12:01pm
It wasn't 3quarts low. I over filled it. I just thought I'd clear that up before I made someone waste time their time asking.sorry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 11:56pm
OK, here's a off the wall thought, could it be the steering clutches are stuck on?  In other words, they turn but not engaging the drop boxes.


Edited by JohnCO - 20 Jun 2017 at 12:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 8:02am
I wouldn't think so.it set with them engaged.If they were stuck, they should be stuck engaged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 9:42am
Same tractor just the engine between the H and HD - gas or diesel.
Is there any change in engine RPM or sound when moving the control lever from FWD / N / REV with engine above idle RPM - in other words any drag down as troque converter transfers power to clutch pack ?
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:06pm
No sir. I just cleaned and have ordered a new converter fluid filter.no change. The shuttle shift valve is getting warm with the machine only running for a few minutes. I don't know if that is valuable information, but I thought I'd put it out there just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:08pm
The engine rpm never changes.it never gets any load for the drivetrain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:12pm
And I know some probably think I ain't putting it in gear, but I have tried all three gears with no change.The steering clutches and breaks seem to be working fine as we used them loading the dozer on the trailer.it wasn't running.We used a winch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 1:08pm
Did the people you got it from say why it had been parked for so long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 1:20pm
I knew the man.He passed away from old age.He just didn't have anything left to do with it at the farm.He probably would have found something else to use it on if he hadn't been so old.He had a guy who helped him around the farm that has a new kabota with a frontend loader and a scrape blade that took care of the roads and stuff for him.right before he passed, he was telling my daddy how good the dozer was and how much he loved it. The guy that has the kabota says it was working fine when they parked it, too.So I don't have any doubt that what they say is true. I have never known either of them to stretch the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:03pm
Monte, these may be dumb questions, but does the forward/reverse lever snap into place when you move it? If not might be something in the mechanical linkage came apart. Or if it's anything like my HD4 do you have the engine running up at about 1500 to 2000 RPM when you shift into forward or reverse? Mine has to be way above idle to move.

Edited by John(IN) - 20 Jun 2017 at 4:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:12pm
One other thought, does it have a diverted valve on left side, behind the seat which has a T handle. If so it may need to be pushed down. I know it redirects the hyd oil. But don't know if it has anything to do with movement of the tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:43pm
No sir. I just took the shuttle shift valve apart and part of it was stuck. I hope in the next few minutes she'll move.stay tuned.lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 5:07pm
No change.... I'm so confused.lol
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