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7020 diff lock/pto issues

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Basehorhawk View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Jun 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 7020 diff lock/pto issues
    Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 3:37pm
Hello all, new to the forum. Have been reading for a couple years but no posts. Bought a 7020 black belly a couple years ago. Currently around 5700 hours. All was fine until baling couple days ago. PTO quit spinning under a load. Started by not staying engaged without wiring it on, then wouldn't even run under load of baker. Plenty of fluids. Tapped on the sleeve on bottom PTO port as mentioned in another thread. Now will spin but when running baler still won't hold.
Also, to make this happen, I have to wedge something under diff lock pedal to keep it disengaged. I know diff lock can kick the PTO off per another thread. All I want is for my PTO to run and for Diff lock to disengage when I want it to.

I appreciate all the help in advance and if you need more info to help dissect my problem please let me know.
Have a good rest of your Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 210Postin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 4:51pm
Check standbye pressure first at pto tee first things first
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 10:36pm
Does every thing work with a remote valve pulled? If it does, add a shim or two to low pressure compensator.   MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 6:40am
Haven't tried with remote pulled. Let me give that a whirl this morning. Still trying to round up everything to test pressures or someone who can help me.

I'll get back with you all, thanks again for any ideas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 1:01pm
Remotes work fine with PTO on or off. Still have to hold PTO lever forward to get it to spin. Can you go into a little more detail on shims on the low pressure compensator? Haven't found anything to test pressures yet. Hoping I can figure out the shims and that takes care of it. Need to cut another 50 acres soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 9:58pm
What Mack was asking, is not if your remotes work, but rather WHILE you are pulling a remote lever, with or without anything coupled up, does the PTO then hold itself engaged, and does the PTO function correctly WHILE the remote is held.  

The reason for this test, is when a remote is pulled, and the hydraulic sensing circuit is functioning correctly the pump will raise the pressure and volume to meet the new demand, the byproduct is that the PTO circuit will see an increase in pressure as well.  So IF the PTO holds WHEN a remote is pulled that points to a possible low standby pressure issue.  Worst case it could be deeper in the PTO valve, but not terribly likely.

I know you are trying to find a gauge to check pressures with, and that is a good thing, just trying to clear up some confusion.
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HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 10:08pm
While holding remote back, does PTO stay engaged?
On front corner of piston pump is a block bolted to pump with four bolts and one small line. Sticking out toward battery is two plugs. One takes 1 1/8 socket the other 1/2 . Take the 1/2 plug out along with shims, spring, and spool. Check for broken spring. Add shim to bring pressure to just under 600 PSI.    MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 5:34am
Thanks for the clarifications. I'll get into it again after work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 7:24am
Couldn't wait to fiddle with the tractor again so ran out before I had to go to work. Fired it up and turned engaged PTO. It would not stay engaged. I wedged a bolt underneath the Diff Lock Pedal to keep it up and it seemed like it wanted to stay engaged but would kick off. (The baler is attached, if that matters).



Pulled the 1/2" plug out of the compensator and the only thing that came out with it was the O ring. The spool, spring, shims, or stop did not come with it. Don't know if thats a bad thing or not but thats what happened. 

Do I need to pull the compensator completely off to get everything out or should it all come out in 1 piece? 

I'm hoping to get my hands on the pressure gauge this afternoon and run some pressure tests so I can give you all some more pertinent information. I just can't bring myself to take it to the mechanic who immediately told me he would need to tear the whole back end off of my tractor without trying my hand at it first. 

As always, I really appreciate you folks help on my problems, as well as bearing with me while I try to explain a bunch of stuff I really don't know a whole lot about. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 10:20pm
Spring may be broken, wedging around spool. MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:20am
Ok. Got out early again and tore into the compensator. I pulled the 1/2" plug out. This time, it came with the shims and the stop. I got the spring out as well. It had a piece of something wedged in the spring. I'm assuming this was the main culprit. Got it out, put everything back together, fired up the tractor, and the PTO held with the baler attached. 

It still acts like it's not quite sure it wants to hold, like it's on the brink of disengaging at any one time, but definitely an improvement. 

My question for you, when I test pressures, do I test at the "T" off of the 3 port PTO pump or off of the what look like 3/8" ports below that pump, (up and to the right of the PTO Shaft itself)? 

With all of you fine folks help I think I am about to have my 7020 ready to roar again. And I know you may get sick of me saying it, but I greatly appreciate all of your insight. 

Hope you have a good Tuesday. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:58am
Remove the JIC cap at the "tee" on the side of the PTO valve. Pressure should be 350 psi minimum with hydraulics at rest. I try to shim them up to 600 psi .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 9:19am
Ok. 

This may be a loaded question, but do you feel if I get the pressure up to around 600 PSI that will solve my diff lock issue? (Issue is that the Diff lock is constantly sucked down and I have to wedge it up to keep it from engaging, it actually has pressure sucking it down and pinched my fingers on more than one occasion. First pinch shame on Allis, second pinch shame on me Ouch)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 3:29pm
Ok Dr. Got my hands on a gauge. At rest, out of the JIC TEE, pressure tested at 400, maybe a hair more. Added shims and got PSI up to almost exactly 600 PSI. All my problems still exist. PTO wouldn't hold and now, even when I pull lever back to disengage, the shaft still spins. 

Where do I go from here? I contemplated pulling the PTO clutch valve completely off and disassembling and cleaning the whole thing but wanted to talk with you folks first. Hoping it is only a seal or o-ring. Getting a little worried it's a bigger problem. 

Any other steps I can take to try and fix it myself? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 4:42pm
You have established a good (600 psi) stand-by pressure at the PTO valve tee. It appears the oil pressure/flow isn't getting beyond the tee.  600 psi goes from the PTO valve forward to the diff lock valve and then onto the brake valve thru steel lines. Your brakes have to be affected by this. I've never had to take a PTO valve apart. Never had an issue with one. If you check pressures at the PTO clutch/brake ports, I'll bet you have very little pressure. The problem must be in that PTO valve somehow not allowing oil flow to move on downstream to Diff lock and brakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tornado8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 7:26pm
Our valve spoil slowly loosened us on our 7020 and did th same exact thing. All we did was tighten the nut back up. Can't remember th details it was 20 years ago
09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:04pm
Are you talking about one of the nuts on the pto pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tornado8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 6:52am
If memory serves me it was the valve on the pto spool
09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 10:05am
I've got two gauges in my truck now. Going to test this afternoon. Manual says if one is low, it's excessive leakage in that compartment only. If both are low, it's a problem in the pressure reducing valve or a leak downstream. No noticeable external leaks in the system as far as I can tell. Next issue, the plug labeled 1 on the drawing, figure 168 in the shop manual, is back into the body too far and can't get a wrench on it. Would this be part of the problem possibly? Could this be what tornado was talking about in tightening the spool?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 4:09pm
No pressure at either port. Pto engaged or not. Do I need to pull top port out and inspect Spring, reducing valve, etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 4:55pm
Spoil in top port of pto valve came out in a bunch of pieces. Think I found the problem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tornado8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 7:44pm
If the nut backed off that exactly what happened to ours as well
09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:15am
Ok. Replaced the piston in the top port of the PTO pump. Cleaned out the other 2 ports. Everything else looked good. New gasket, bolted everything back together. Fired it up. Had slightly over 300 PSI in the left (I think) port. Went to engage the PTO and it wouldn't hold and actually wouldn't barley pull forward. This time, I believe the linkage was bound up. Tried to shorten it up and the damn thing broke. Have a new one ordered and should have it on tomorrow. I've definitely got my fingers and toes crossed that the problem is solved. PTO doesn't spin freely now either. Hoping shes ready to make some hay Sunday after the rain goes by. Just wanted to update everyone that has lent a hand in my repairs. As always, I appreciate it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 9:50pm
Ok doc, put new linkage in. Tested pressures out of both ports. Tested good. 340 ish no pto, 350 ish with it engaged. I need to tweak a bracket that holds the linkage so it can fully slide, but that's minor and if it didn't get dark it would be done.
Next question, diff lock pedal is still getting sucked down and drags down the psi on rear ports when it is engaged. If I wedge it up, both ports test great. Linkage to diff lock pump seems tight enough as far as I can see. Have you ever dealt with this? Any suggestions or reasons why it's doing it?

Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 9:52pm
MACK, any ideas?

Edited by Basehorhawk - 22 Jun 2017 at 9:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 10:15pm
Has diff lock valve ever been worked on? Could the lines be hooked wrong? The diff lock valve is pretty simple and almost never causes a problem. The only one that I ever dealt with would not stay down. Bad casting was letting pressure into release area.
Wish I could be more help. MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 10:24pm
I think a lot of things were done to it before I got it. Never considered lines being hooked up wrong. I'll try and get into the book tomorrow to see what I can figure out. Appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 7:22am
Never ever have had a diff lock pedal that would apply itself. HAS THIS DIFF LOCK PROBLEM ALWAYS BEEN WITH THIS TRACTOR??  Must be lines connected wrong. Does the diff lock work when the pedal is down??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basehorhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 7:56am
I never noticed it until recently, but that doesn't mean it's a new problem. Haven't had a chance to check lines yet. I'm not sure if it is working or not with pedal down. All I know is it pulls down when you let off the breaks, think the dang things possessed.
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