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"Right to Repair" (John Deere) |
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TimNearFortWorth
Orange Level Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Points: 2014 |
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Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 10:29pm |
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https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/farmers-using-hacked-firmware-to-bypass-john-deeres-software-stranglehold/?ref=yfp
If link works, good article on farmers hiring outside tech companies to crack codes JD uses to prevent any but authorized JD dealers to troubleshoot JD Ag electronics, for JD service rates. |
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11553 |
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As the article mentioned, this has been going on for quite some time in the Automotive field. Seems funny that something like that would wind up in the field. Literally. And oh, what a surprise, the dealer sticking up the customer's butt once again. And the Green Tractor Co. ain't no different! They will loose a lot of business because of greed. To bad, so sad!!
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50551 |
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Dave H
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central IL Points: 3481 |
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locally, is $92 to get in the door and just have Ford hook up the puter to my F250.
That is just for the plug in. |
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albatros_3
Silver Level Joined: 16 Apr 2012 Location: SE Michigan Points: 449 |
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Here is the original article:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware There's a lot of discussion right now over on some techie sites about this. Really, it just comes down to Deere isn't providing the level of service, access or "repairability" most customers want. So a black market for the service is created. If Mother Deere would look back at past technology happenings, they might realize the black market they are creating. Think about music CDs. $15 or $20 for a CD of 12 songs and you only wanted to hear one or two of them? Welcome to piracy. Now you can buy one or two that you want for $.99 each and now piracy is not a major national issue as it was in 2000. But that's just a short-sighted summarization. If Deere would provide more of what the people want, then more people would obtain what they need legally. Piracy will always happen, but if you just resist what the customer wants, you're creating a new market for someone to provide what you won't. |
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Brian S(NY)
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: CherryValley,NY Points: 3371 |
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well said!
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God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21487 |
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I've always felt 'piracy' was a joke. Think about this... when the Beta video RECORDERS came out, it was understood you WOULD use them to record your shows..same as reel to reel decks having a RED RECORD button..doh ! It 'they' didn't want you to record, there wouldn't be the RED button. fast forward(yeah, pun intended) to PCs. Same thing,just easier,faster and now WORLD WIDE WEB !
As for JD...the guv shot down there 'we own it' lawsuit....now kudos for anyone who can decode the 'computer'. That info SHOULD be published.....the 'error codes', not the computer program.That way, 'Farmer John' can see that it's a tiny piece of corn husk blocking some hidden sensor and clear it, instead of calling for $$$ support late sat night ! Odds are real good the $$ tech wouldn't know anyway...'it'l have to come into the shop'..... Jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Joe(TX)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Weatherford. TX Points: 1682 |
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The real solution would be to not buy John Deere anything.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50551 |
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11553 |
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Joe, has the fix!!
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Krazy Karl
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Location: SE MN Points: 203 |
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For the most part on the newer ones the code is displayed on the screen with a msg of ;;;;speed sensor. so when cornstalk is on that sensor. But most of the problem is as soon as it monitor beeps. Cutomer is on the phone calling and not getting out to look themself. Now on the older ones with computer. Most of the codes are in the operators manual. Ive been in some of those situations. Not saying the big company is right. They should make it easier for customers to fix there own things if they want. Sry for long rant.
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TramwayGuy
Orange Level Access Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11220 |
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There is also the question of whether some of those hacks end up upping the horsepower, or RPM's, or adversely affecting the emissions put out by the engine.
Deere surely doesn't want to cover equipment warranties IF the 'cracking' affects any of that, and I can see their point. But viewing trouble codes ought to be doable without involving a dealership. |
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bryan/silex
Silver Level Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Location: silex,mo Points: 181 |
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lots of rants here,,,,,i have a question tho,,,How many auto companies make it easy for you to work on cars and trucks??????
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WD's and 45's B's and c's and a few red ones , ALLIS EXPRESS also
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3291 |
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let the dealer have them while they are under warranty, but the indipendant shops have the same access just the same as the automotive world . i dont really like there only being two or three tractor companys controling all of it anyways
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18720 |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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DanWi
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: wttn Points: 1705 |
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Messing with horsepower and voiding warranty, years ago you would turn the screw on the pump just a little, now you need a computer geek with a laptop top to bump it up for you.
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VAfarmboy
Silver Level Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Location: Virginia Points: 468 |
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That is because the EPA made John Deere fix it so you can't do that because giving it more fuel would increase the greenhouse gas emissions and cause more global warming. Of course this is good for John Deere because you now have to have one of their "technicians" to come out and work on it, and they are going to charge you 100 dollars an hour from the time he leaves the Deere stealership until he gets back after fixing your green machine, and that probably will include the half hour he spent stopping by McDonald's for a cup of coffee and an Egg muffin for breakfast on his way out to your farm and the half hour he spent stopping for a soda, fries, and Big Mac on his way back.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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Deere and any of the ag companies should be bound to the same conditions the government did with OBD2 in the automotive industry. OBD2 stopped the automakers from doing the same thing effectively locking the vehicle owner and John Smith's independent repair shop out of diagnosing/repairing anything electronic. Now all you need is to buy a scan tool. The reason for the price is the level of software subscription you're willing to pay for.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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ever since I can remember....that's back to the 50's, many owners of both vehicles and equipment were able to work on their own. the dealers still had the city bot following and kept busy with them, they made their money, they were always busy. and now days they are still busy and still making plenty of money! now take most people nowadays that have one vehicle to go to work in. and it breaks, and can't be driven. you call the dealer and can't get in for anywhere from 1 day to 1 week or more. what are you sposed to do, how do you get to work? same with equipment dealers. I needed my combine worked on, and couldn't do it myself. I called the dealer a month ahead of harvest to come fix it. they never did come, they were to busy in the shop with repairs and reprogramming of combine computers to come fix my combine. this was a dealer 11 miles from me. I finally called a dealer 200 miles from me and they came right away and had my combine fixed in about 2 hours time plus mileage (that about kilt me on) but then I was able to harvest my crops. when the weather is good, the farmer needs to go! not wait for when it's convienient for a dealer to do any repairs. but they don't care. and the desk jocky's at the manufacturers don't have a clue on how to even run a machine they sell, just gimme money! there are lots of variations on this just so anyone doesn't understand just one thing!
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TramwayGuy
Orange Level Access Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11220 |
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"Deere and any of the ag companies should be bound to the same conditions the government did with OBD2 in the automotive industry. OBD2 stopped the automakers from doing the same thing effectively locking the vehicle owner and John Smith's independent repair shop out of diagnosing/repairing anything electronic. Now all you need is to buy a scan tool. The reason for the price is the level of software subscription you're willing to pay for."
Well said. I agree. At the very least, able to read and diagnose faults. Tinkering with the software, not necessarily. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21487 |
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re: Now WHO in their right mind ( I know, they're college dumbed down) would
put a battery that oozes fumes and gasses, who would put it UNDER THE
BACK SEAT!!
sounds like a Prius ???? even better, how about a trunk that ONLY unlocks from the inside and the battery is dead.... re: sensors/computers the BIG beef I have agin them is that a 'trouble code' could signal 3,4, 12 different things ! The 'smart' computer should say #5 plug don't work NOT a general 'misfire' code. begs the question...if you have a 24 row planter and #17 ain't working, does the computer say that #17 ain't spinning ? jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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