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Detroit in Allis 440

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grinder220 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grinder220 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 7:07am
Would a DT466 fit? That's another damn good engine.
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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 10:46am
just thought i bring up the big perkins but a 3208 would be a good choice  , it would be very hard to beat all the benifits of the cummins
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 11:01am
The Stiegers of that era and size used 3208, about only difference in 440 was the Cummins, didn't think ether one was a great puller.
1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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Oldred View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 12:02pm
I think you need to re-think the Detroit ! This almost seems like it has an auto tranny but probably just the way the power director shifts nicely ? I would be tempted to do this. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwF5o-sVgs

Edited by Oldred - 07 Feb 2017 at 12:09pm
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Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 2:17pm
I had a new Ford LN 8000 single axle straight truck that pulled a trailer at times. It was had a 3208 under the hood (was going to say powered but that would have been wrong). It could barely pull a hen off a nest.  Turbo version may have been better. Likely could have pulled a rooster!
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 45 turboa- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 4:44pm
30 plus year ago I drove a dump truck for a friend of mine in Florida he had a 70s Ford L 9000 I think. It was a tandem 15 yard box with a 3208 Cat and a 13 sp road ranger loaded you never seen 13. 45 may 50 with a tail wind but a sweet running engine ! I think you would be OK with a 3208 in that 440.  Let see some pictures when your done what ever you decide.
turbocharged
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 6:55pm
We have a Jasper reman 3208 in a tandem axle Gmc top kick 5+2 with a 20' steel bed. We used to haul grain with it, but now mainly just gravel and scrap iron. With 600 bushels of corn on it 55mph isn't a problem. They are pretty snappy little engines when your empty though. I will be posting pictures of it as I go, but probably won't get started on it until after planting.
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ac fleet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 7:18pm
What causes the coolant to get in the oil on the 555's? ---any ideas?----kinda need to know!! LOL!!!!

As for Detroits ,--I had an Oliver Super 99 GM  tractor  and people 5 miles away were complaining about the noise!!! ----it had a 3-71 with 105 injectors in it (smoked like 500 tires burning!)--- 4' straight pipe and you stuffed all the cotton that you could find in your ears ,----wasn't bad,---kinda fun actually!!---We had 1 farm just outside the village of downs , and I always farmed it late at night or 2 in the morning!---Got LOTS of reaction on that venture! LOL!!! thanks ; ac fleet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CALEBnOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 10:24pm
Ive got a 3406c I need finish converting to a truck engine. In factory form it made 540hp and 2626ft. Its got the 599 hp rack settings now plus a truck timing advance. Its an industrial so it had no advance, locked at 18°. Now it will go to 27°! Ill definitely be running a Pyrometer on that dude.
Now if i could find a steiger Tiger 3 or versatile 1150 with a bad cummins id stick in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 12:35am
You must be a very light sleeper. I work shift work and if the help is running the FW30 with a straight piped VT 903 it doesn't wake me. The 903 can be heard 3 miles away. [/QUOTE]

The neighbors 8.3 is straight piped and I've never heard any other make or model of engine (other Cummins engines included) that makes the amount or type of noise that 8.3 does.  It doesn't make a turbo "whistle" or anything like that, it is a "squall" for a lack of a better describing word.  Dad always said that if he had a piece of equipment that sounded like it does, he would shut it off and fix what was broken.  The noise it makes is a pitch that penetrates walls of a house and just drones on you.   It's almost as grating on your ears as finger nails on a chalk board.  I haven't been around the 8.3 powered Gleaners, but am told they sound similar.
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Dan73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 5:50am
That is why the make muflers. Don't straight pipe it then complain it is loud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 6:38am
Originally posted by wayneIA wayneIA wrote:

You must be a very light sleeper. I work shift work and if the help is running the FW30 with a straight piped VT 903 it doesn't wake me. The 903 can be heard 3 miles away.


The neighbors 8.3 is straight piped and I've never heard any other make or model of engine (other Cummins engines included) that makes the amount or type of noise that 8.3 does.  It doesn't make a turbo "whistle" or anything like that, it is a "squall" for a lack of a better describing word.  Dad always said that if he had a piece of equipment that sounded like it does, he would shut it off and fix what was broken.  The noise it makes is a pitch that penetrates walls of a house and just drones on you.   It's almost as grating on your ears as finger nails on a chalk board.  I haven't been around the 8.3 powered Gleaners, but am told they sound similar.
[/QUOTE]

Huh?   We have a R62 with Cummins, a semi with a 8.3, a repowered 7580 with a 8.3, and a Rogator with a 5.9 plus the straight piped VT903.   Other than the 903 none are louder than a 426.   The 903 just has a good bark. None are as hard as the D17 when you work it on a person hearing.
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 7:16am
Huh, my neighbor's 2366 out growls my L2 with 670T 426.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by CALEBnOK CALEBnOK wrote:

Ive got a 3406c I need finish converting to a truck engine. In factory form it made 540hp and 2626ft. Its got the 599 hp rack settings now plus a truck timing advance. Its an industrial so it had no advance, locked at 18°. Now it will go to 27°! Ill definitely be running a Pyrometer on that dude.
Now if i could find a steiger Tiger 3 or versatile 1150 with a bad cummins id stick in.

No matter how you set that Cat, there is no way you could convince me it would ever keep up with a KTA 1150, and live! 893 cid 3406, to 1150 cid. HP setting is only part of the equation. The torque is what moves the world!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 2:06pm
The Cat equivalent would be the 3408 from that vintage or a newer C18 would be more of a fit in a Steiger Tiger and not worry about any pyro's. Not only would you be down in torque but you would lose weight up front.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimNearFortWorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 2:34pm
Ran 3408's and 12's in early 80's, Wyoming, big pulling units chasing drilling rigs on completions/workovers.
Screaming Jimmies were kept for pumps (8V and 12V92's) but Jimmies faded quickly on newer mobile rigs coming into the area that were rated at 15,000' and deeper.
CAT's had steady torque coming out of the slips when coming off bottom on 18,000' foot wells with large tubing strings weighing 250K+ including drill collars.
Were faster as the Jimmy had to have time to "rap up" when you pulled out of the slips and by the time she topped out it was nearly time to shut her down on that 60' stand of pipe pulled.
Ran one we had with SXS 3412's and a Noster Box, that girl could come off bottom at 300,000# plus without breaking a sweat. Had to remove the derrick on her for transport as I recall she was close to 100K weight without the derrick.
Had a trooper at a port of entry put a tape measure on her from one outboard valve cover to the other once and he advised she was barely road width legal.
Good ol' days for sure as people got out of your way when they met us and bettin there is still handprints on some of those rigs steering wheels from driving them up/down mountain switchback rig roads, always kept the door unlatched myself, ready to bail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jwmac7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 5:32pm
No cat would out do the KTA motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grinder220 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 6:22pm
the mighty KTA 1500 isn't as much of a beast as people make it out to be. Here's a chart with HP and torque specs for Cummins Engines. Cross it over with the caterpillar spec sheet and the cummins isn't to impressive.

Edited by grinder220 - 08 Feb 2017 at 6:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 7:30pm
that kta 1150 is a pretty mean old engine but that would probley  more the 1693 cat days by the way that 1693 and 3408 pre cup sure had a sound of there own,  but back to the 440 i think the 3208 would be an easy swap  ,   allot of those old 1160 v8 cats looked exactly like a3208 and they were gutless,  i worked on one 1160 that 3208 badgeing 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 7:31pm
compare a juiced cat to a stock kta, then yes, the cat can run with it, for a while, but juice the kta and it can produce way more than 600 hp, and live a long time. We're talking 30 years difference in technology as well. Some of the modern technology can be applied to the kta also. More modern turbo-charger for one. There is simply no replacement for displacement. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dans 7080 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 8:18pm
A good buddy of mine does heavy haul. He has a 79 359 with a KT1150 in it and "cat" mud flaps on it. He would stop at the rest area at the bottom of jelico mountain, watch 15 or 20 trucks go past then hit the road. He would start passing them in short time at 150k lbs. The cb rang out one day when one driver said " man that is one good running kitty" before he could answer another driver said " ain't no way that's a cat, that's a KT!" I'm a cat man all the way and so is he but the old KTs are hard to beat.
When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 8:57pm
A KTA might have been a big motor in the day, but cat can reliably get the same numbers out of the C15, and the C16 is that stout out of the gate. I think I'm going to look for a 3208T. Is anyone interested in the 555 whole or parts? I think it will run, but I haven't messed with it much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 11:10am
For ease of swapping, I vote 3208T. The later turboed 3208s were good engines, and if there are any specific parts you need for the swap, the green version of the same tractor will have the parts.

Cummins is affordable to work on, but IMO they are not all they are cracked up to be. Some guys with Dodge/Cummins pickups act like Jesus Christ himself was on the engineering team.

I like Cat stuff, the guy I work for part time during harvest has a few (3 3408 powered trucks, 1 3406) but I dont like the weight penalty and the cost of parts, so we generally pick out Cummins 855 powered trucks for our own stuff.


Edited by GM Guy - 19 Feb 2017 at 11:11am
Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.

If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by GM Guy GM Guy wrote:


For ease of swapping, I vote 3208T. The later turboed 3208s were good engines, and if there are any specific parts you need for the swap, the green version of the same tractor will have the parts.



Cummins is affordable to work on, but IMO they are not all they are cracked up to be. Some guys with Dodge/Cummins pickups act like Jesus Christ himself was on the engineering team.

I like Cat stuff, the guy I work for part time during harvest has a few (3 3408 powered trucks, 1 3406) but I dont like the weight penalty and the cost of parts, so we generally pick out Cummins 855 powered trucks for our own stuff.



I like my Cummins especially the 8.3 I won't go as far as saying Jesus was on the engineering team but won't rule out a apostle or two may have been on the engineering team.

I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostriderinthesky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 12:41pm
i would not hesitate for one second. i would put the 6V71 in it!!! i have run detroits and cats the 3208 and the 6v71,just not in the same tractor as yours. the 3208 is a great engine but it has its limitations. the 6v71 is bulletproof and will operate on less fuel. the "screaming Detroit" just isn't true. put a good muffler on it and it won't be any louder that a cat. the 3208 was pretty common to throw a rod in steigers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 12:47pm
Screaming Detroits sound like they are turning fast because they are two stroke engines, with each cylinder firing every crankshaft revolution. Nearly all the rest of the world's internal combustion engines are 4 stroke so each cylinder fires just every other crankshaft revolution.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostriderinthesky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 1:02pm
true!!! detroits are two cycle and there is no exhaust stroke. the blower on the side evacuates the exhaust gasses when the piston is on the bottom of its stroke. i think the nickname "screaming detroit" came from the run away syndrome some had when the block drains were closed or plugged and unburned fuel in worn engines would build up in the block until it started being taken in on the bottom of the stroke and the engine would self destruct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 1:30pm
You can muffler the exhaust all you want, the scream of those engines is just unreal; nowadays, we have two in cranes and I luv to rev them , but dam they get annoying fast
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by DougG DougG wrote:

You can muffler the exhaust all you want, the scream of those engines is just unreal; nowadays, we have two in cranes and I luv to rev them , but dam they get annoying fast

2x
The reason we called our a screaming detroit was that it was gutless unless she was wide open and screaming at you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 3:21pm
I think the biggest oil source at the intake can be seals on the blower shaft.

Somewhere I have a shop manual because I wanted to learn more about those two stroke engines.

Just that the 2 stroke engine exhaust sounds like a 4 stroke engine at half the speed, so at 3000 rpm the detroit sounds like a 4 stroke engine with the same number of cylinders turning 6000 RPM. My Fiesta Echo Boost 3 cylinder is just the opposite. At 6000 RPM it sounds like a 6 cylinder engine just getting into its cruising range. The 1 liter engine claims 123 hp at 6500 rpm, helped by direct injection and a turbo.

Gerald J.
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