more 645 questions

I went and looked at another 645 fiat allis payloader yesterday that is for sale, and it got me confused. Mine is supposedly a Fiat Allis, not allis chalmers, but there are many differences between my 645 and the one I looked at yesterday. First off, my serial number is 19xxN. I really don't beleive that the N should be there, however there is a decal that says 645 N also. But it may be a generic stick on that someone stuck on there. My serial number is stamped into the frame under the cab on the left side. The serial number on the one yesterday was up in the cab, and was TL 17xx. Smaller number than mine.
   Another thing, the one yesterday has a smaller cab than mine. Mine is wider, and extends rearward such that the hydraulic oil tank filler is inside the cab. One yesterday, hydraulic filler is outside behind the cab, because the cab is shorter
hydraulic filler is actually in the same place on both, but the cab size difference puts mine inside the cab, other one outside the cab.
   The loader arms seemed lighter on the one I looked at yesterday also, and configured way differently. On mine, my loader lift cylinders are mounted differently. Barrel end of my cylinders are only about a foot off the ground, and the rod end is very close to the loader arm pivot pins. One yesterday; barrel was about 2 feet off the ground, and rod was farther ahead. Basically, my cylinders are more vertical, yesterday's, more horizontal. I like the extra ground clearance on the one I looked at yesterday.
   Another difference is that my shifter is on the left side of the steering column. One yesterday was on left side of the seat. Both have air brakes but mine has disc brakes on all four corners, whereas the one yesterday had four wheel drum brakes which are presently not working. On the front of my transmission, I have only one pump, ,which is the main pump for loader function. Yesterday's 645 has 2 pumps on the front of the transmission. One being loader function, but looks way different than mine and the other pump, according to the seller is a transmission charge pump. He said tranny was weak when he got it, and he put that pump on it new, and it took care of the problem. Final drive planeteries and wheel rims appear to be different between mine and this one also.
     My whole reason for even looking at this one, was the thought of making one good one out of two was what I was thinking. But it appears that there are too many things different. My main question, is which one would be the newer of the two. One yesterday I thought would have been newer, but some things point otherwise. Serial number for one, being mine is a bigger number. Does anyone here know off hand when and what changes all went on during the years of 645 production. .? Thanks, Darrel

my 78 545 has hyd pump mounted/stacked on trans pump on rt side.Left accessory drive has steering pump mounted.Those drum brakes are air over hyd.I had to replace both master cyls and both rear axle wheel cyls and reline shoes.fronts must be wore out too as adjustment is gone but cyls aren't leaking yet.More lining and wheel cyls on shelf,waiting...

I don't know if any models having "Allis-Chalmers" as the decal on the machine were made in Italy but once they became "Fiat-Allis" the Italians had the upper hand on production. My 1984 FR12 was made in Italy but was the splitting image of a 545.

Darrel, Darrel!! Haven't I learned you anything yet, Pictures,Pictures!! It looks like the guys have used a lot of valuable posting time and you wrote a book to start it (does raise a lot of questions, so I'm curious) So I know that you have pictures (or the kids do) of this loader on your cell phone. No one, I MEAN NO ONE goes and looks and a piece of equipment now days without taking cell phone picture. I wasn't going to bring it up but with your "Iron Disease" affliction I'd be surprised if you don't have "selfie" with it  So send me one of those pictures, to my phone and we'll get it posted up and solve this problem, I'd like to know what it is, besides this is cutting into restoration time  geeez!

Ok, I know how to diagnose "IRON DISEASE' and was able to shame Darrel into these photos, should solve the problems.
I'm going to give it early TL645. The first 645s were designated TL. The transmission control was on the left side of the seat, later migrated to the steering column. They also were sold without factory cabs. They weren't required by OSHA yet so there were quite a few different types of open cabs and enclosed cabs out there. 
Early TL645s / 645 had different size planetarys in the front and rear. You can tell by the size of course. The bigger one was in the front, more weight, more abuse etc. Some time later 645Bs went to the bigger size in the front and rear. 545s,645s 745s all did this.
TL645 brakes were air over hydraulic too. They were always kind of temperamental. This is an ALLIS CHALMERS TL645, the FIAT ALLIS decal is just words the sooner you buy this and get those FIAT decals of the happier this loader will be (IRON DISEASE THING) tires are probably 20.5x25 The serial number would give the year. I think they were introduced in 1965 or 66. We sold one we had in 1986 and now have permission to go get it back, it doesn't run, but were going to go get it.  This looks like a very,very nice specimen, OK anything else?     (maybe I shouldn't let you guys go unsupervised for this long a spell)  

oh...and Mel....gits him to send you pics of all the insides of his buildings so we can see why all the important stuff has to sits outside!

Yes definitely AC, nothing FIAT about it (unless someone changed the engine to IVECO) Can't see the engine very well, but I bet it's a 3500. After several years of merger some dealers were promoting the IVECO engines as replacements for worn out 3500s. The IVECOS were in the FIAT-ALLIS FR12s. I bet it's a 3500 AC. Put the serial number up, maybe we can tell you what day they made it.

there's a 645-B on an up coming auction that has sum similarities to Darrells machine. lots of pics. "www.delpeterson.com" it's the 2-day auction on Feb 21-22.

Very interesting...never seen that style boom on any of them before. I wonder if a prototype machine snuck out of the factory and made its way to Darrel...??

Amos wrote: Well,,,after looking at the pictures above I could not figure out what you guys are talking about the boom being different and the lift cylinders different from a 645, as they are identical to mine.

was it cleaner than yers?

With all these pictures of 645's its beginning to look like the 645 Club. 

I thoughts you was being a wise guy, and picking on my payloader because it's not too clean. Maybe by "cleaner," you just meant "in nicer shape. ..? Sorry, I'll try to do better in the future. In my defense, I hadn't had my morning caffeine yet when I posted that. Lol. Darrel

orangeman wrote: With all these pictures of 645's its beginning to look like the 645 Club.  Enjoy seeing the Industrial AC side.... Orangeman

I like the construction/industrial side of allis chalmers, also. A 645 when not broke down like mine presently is, is awesome. Darrel

any machine running and working is a good one (poke,poke,poke) you ain't gots yours fixed yet??? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING???? it's been almost a month!!! do we need to send Mel up there with a SHARP stick, or me with a cattle prod??? if this "back" thing works....look  the F out, i'll be able to catch up on a few things I've put on the back burner!